Future of Retail in Charlbury

Mon 29 Sep 2008, 18:23

Actually, Jon it was when you referred me to the Abe Books website for used books that I started buying more regularly online. But I would miss Evenlode if it were gone, so I could make an effort for books.

But economies of scale doesn't have to affect the price of local produce.

I 'get on my bike' and shop at Slaters, the shop next door to it and the shops on the Cowley Road who are all small family businesses with quality goods and astoundingly, reasonable prices.

Mon 29 Sep 2008, 16:12

Egor, I matched the Amazon price on a couple of books for you two or three years ago and you never came back. Do I believe a word you say? No. Full of advice, but why not put your foot where your mouth is?

Mon 29 Sep 2008, 11:54

The fact is that any small trader, whether in Charlbury or not, will never be able to compete on price with the large chains due to economies of scale. However, what you do get is a much higher quality (compare the taste of the meat at New Barn Farm or Slatters to the bland pre-packed stuff at Sainsburys or the ham from News and Things compared to Bernard Matthews' thin slices of tasteless rubber!!!!)) and exceptional convernience (think of the cost of petrol even to get to Witney). However, I also accept that some people will choose to ride their bikes to the supermarkets just to prove a point so it is therefore down to the rest of the community to support the local traders rather than have our wonderful town become a shop-free zone! Long may people like Tim continue to trade successfully.

Mon 29 Sep 2008, 09:32

I agree with most Tim's points and his shop is a sterling example of how not to be a nostalgia-clone, useless gift shop. However, as much as local merchants want to put the onus on local residents to shop locally, it's a two-way street: Merchants should bear in mind the economics of shopping locally. If customers have less money to spend, lower your prices and build a market base.

Mon 29 Sep 2008, 08:59

Sorry Roger but Deborah is the one who is correct and that's also a excellent point regarding the fighting through the hordes of people as only on the news this morning they now reckon that we waste approx 3 days a year just trying to get past people on the pavements, so shop in charlbury just think what you could do with those 3 extra days a year.

Mon 29 Sep 2008, 08:03

Roger, I think you have got the wrong end of the stick with Tim's entry. I think he was saying that anybody bought a 'run of the mill' gift from one of those "clone high street mall shopping centres." would be having to put on an act of gratituted, as opposed to someone receiving a more unique gift available from our more individual and unique shops. I for one totally agree. Even from last Christmas we were having to watch our pennies and all I can say is thank god for 'Cotswold Frames' and 'The Good Food Shop', since they provided me with some lovely inexpensive gifts (added bonus of not having to fight ones way through hordes of people and yes, that personal touch).

Mon 29 Sep 2008, 03:17

Tim ,WHAT are you doing .You do realise that you are doing yourself a disservice by saying you will make good actors of people getting gifts like that .Sir ben and lady dani will have by now wiped you off their christmas card list,also dera Freddy and jenny jones plus michael hadley who i suspect would all spend the time and effort to have a look around your shop,but now will go to the superstores instead .So well done Tim.

Sun 28 Sep 2008, 17:16

well said tim it's a shame other people dont think like you.

Sun 28 Sep 2008, 15:39

Im glad that most of Charlbury do not have the same opinion as Ken Jones maybe if he got out and about more away from his computer he might see what Charlbury has to offer and it doesn't have to be more expensive just because it is bought in Charlbury…

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Sun 28 Sep 2008, 08:05

are shop will not close as we will do everything we can not to let it go that far. ken if there is no future in charlbury WHY are there new shops opening up in charlbury.and Why do the shops that are there do ok.

Sat 27 Sep 2008, 20:39

Mandy ,take no notice of ken he just thinks like some others on here that he is right and to hell with it .The fact that you promote your shop at finstock and that the small shops in charlbury have changed over a lot of years ,but they are still open despite people like ken saying they have no future .

Sat 27 Sep 2008, 20:37

hi mandy it is only a matter of time before the shop at finstock closes. and you are out of work.

Sat 27 Sep 2008, 20:29

thats why small shops dont stand a chance with peoples feelings i know that supermarkets have a lot of the trade that is out there but they can afford to and that is why small shops dont stand a chance.

Sat 27 Sep 2008, 19:53

there is no future for retail in charlbury.it is going to be a picture post card town for tourists to pass through.every body shops in super markets or online. the people that believe that there is a future for charlbury are incoming dreamers.

Sat 27 Sep 2008, 05:06

I would be surprised if Charlbury wasn't the one place you couldn't buy barrels of diamonds; at least until the recession finally reaches here.

Fri 26 Sep 2008, 23:26

Hey boys where in charlbury can we buy barrels of oil or diamonds,only i am interested as its my wifes birthday soon and i was wondering what to get her ,which do you think she might prefer???

Fri 26 Sep 2008, 06:37

Precisely: the more barrels RELEASED into the market, not drilled.
You've articulated my argument better than I could: The price of commodities in the market are controlled by those who control the supply. The same reason the majority of the worlds mined diamonds are retained from sale, because to sell all available into the market would drastically diminish their pricing, and the suppliers profits.

Although it would mean we could all afford diamonds.

Unfortunately, we can't eat diamonds and yet the same principles are applied to food pricing as well.

As to blaming the EU for everything, do you really think that British farmers don't get massive agricultural subsidies as well?

Thu 25 Sep 2008, 14:19

Igor, you are wrong - the more barrels of oil that are released into the market the cheaper the price (see the recent announcements from OPEC that drove prices down). I would also suggest that the massive subsidies paid to our European neighbours for farming help as well! As with all walks of life, good always costs more than average - that's why Sainsburys is so cheap compared to the local butcher

Thu 25 Sep 2008, 13:30

Economics is at the root of the issue but higher volume doesn't assure lower unit cost. Otherwise, the more oil you drilled, the cheaper the barrel and we know that doesn't work.

But even if that was the case, I still don't understand why French, Italian, Spanish and even German markets sell locally sourced and produced produce cheaper than in the supermarkets; but the Charlbury market sells meat (for example), at an equivalent price or greater to a farm shop and more expensively than the Co-op.

Why does good food have to cost us more?

Thu 25 Sep 2008, 11:04

I have just re-read my post - many apologies for the appalling syntax in the first line!!

Thu 25 Sep 2008, 10:57

Surely basic economics answers your question Igor? Locally produced produce is typically from small producers without the huge economies of scale of large scale operations. Therefore labour costs, production methods and even transportation (despite the small distances involved) are significantly higher per unit. The bottom line is not cost but value. To my mind, value is based on quality for which I for one and willing to pay that bit more. Interestingly, every farmers market in Charlbury is a roaring succes with many stalls selling out, and they definitely aren't cheap, just better!!

Thu 25 Sep 2008, 10:22

Mandy, I'm not trying to single out your local Finstock shop (which I promise I will visit in the near future). My point is more generally about food pricing and why shoppers like me wind up food shopping in supermarkets, albeit, reluctantly.

Cheese, is a good example.

Why is it that locally produced cheeses are priced as expensively as French imports?

And I mean, next village over, local.

Surely not having to cover the transport and import costs would reduce the overall cost,which could be then passed onto the consumer. And yet, I'll pay as much and sometimes more for local cheeses as I would for French or Italian imports.

How come?

Thu 25 Sep 2008, 07:57

i understand what you say the local meat we dont price it comes in priced but yes when things are tight for everyone i know what you mean we are trying to find a supplier that dose not cost us the earth as well its very hard to know what to do im affard the supermarkets do out price the little shops we are trying.

Wed 24 Sep 2008, 15:28

I haven't had much occasion to go the shop in Finstock, but will drop in next time I'm there. What attracts me to a shop are fair prices for decent food, which I will go out of my way to find, as in Oxford.

I will choose locally sourced when it's not cost prohibitive. My point is that like the price of food at Farmer's Markets, local retailers don't seem to be able (or willing) to pass on the lower cost of accessing local produce onto the consumer.

I know there's a certain cache in 'locally sourced' as there has been in 'organic' but when it leads to inflated pricing, it looses it's attraction. This is in contrast to local shops and farmers markets in France, Spain or Italy where the produce is consistently sold cheaper than in the supermarkets.

Why are we being asked to pay more for food that costs less to transport or is grown using fewer pesticides?

Tue 23 Sep 2008, 20:28

so you would rather go to a small grocers in oxford than a local shop in charlbury or finstock. are small shop in finstock has fresh bread daily fresh veg and friut twice a week from a local supplier.
fresh meat from foxbury farm and callow farm.fresh cream from church hanbourgh. mind you i would rather bike to finstock than oxford.thats why small shops dont get very far if we wanted to sell very cheap food we would be called tescos would we.the coop are very good to us and helped us fit the shop out.

Mon 22 Sep 2008, 11:55

I've got nothing against the Co-op. It tries to benefit local communities, hires locally and is run as a cooperative business supporting suppliers as well as fair trade. In stark contrast to Tesco or Sainsbury who do muscle in to local communitiesand often hold suppliers to ransom.

As far as pricing goes in local shops, the local one I was going to be charged £2 for a pepper in was not sourcing locally. Allot of buyers can't afford to charitably support local shops when their prices are significantly inflated, especially with the price of food these days.

Why can't local shops find suppliers that permit them to sell produce as competitive prices? I've noticed in Oxford there are numerous small grocers on the Cowley Road that sell cheaper (and fresher!) produce than the local Tesco.

Surely those distributors would welcome business from the countryside. Ofcourse that might mean going into Oxford pick up the goods, but doesn't 12 miles count as local?

Mon 22 Sep 2008, 08:34

Kat when you say the co-op are muscling in on what others sell in charlbury please consider this thought .Charlbury has grown considerably since the co-op first opened in charlbury hence the need for a larger store ,also there is the need for competition in any area as its healthy i feel . Whilst it does seem that shops like the co-op dominate in small towns like charlbury ,imagine if you will the ageing population that would not be able to easily use public transport to shop elsewhere ,what would they do .Also consider the fact that the co-op do not benefit from the sale of papers financially apart from the fact that people will often not go for just a paper,as news and things provide the papers and some cards for the said shop and willingly accept the profit from items sold.So you see the co-op are needed in charlbury ,it benefits us all .

Sun 21 Sep 2008, 22:49

I agree in the main about supporting local shops even if it means paying a bit more. Recently, however, I had to draw the line. I've been sticking with the post office for its dry-cleaning service even though the Co-op has started offering the service as well and was slightly cheaper. I was steamed about this at first because I thought the Co-op was, yet again, muscling in on territory already covered elsewhere in Charlbury, and was taking advantage of its one-stop shop position. The problem is that the dry cleaners who sub-contracts out of the post office just raised its prices for a two-piece suit from £9 to £15, whereas the Co-op will do a suit for £6. I feel terribly sorry for Pete that he's going to lose business for this service, but you can't justify that kind of differential, even when trying to support the local shop.

Sun 21 Sep 2008, 15:43

Well said Mandy.

Sun 21 Sep 2008, 13:45

i understand about prices yes some things are pricey but then if you dont support these little shops they will go.it's not only getting things from a local shop its seeing people as well we have a lady that works in the shop just for the company and shes doing her bit by helping out in the shop.

Sun 21 Sep 2008, 13:32

Well Igor if you object to local shop prices where will that leave our local shops if we all thought along those lines,they source local produce in a lot of the shops and yes sometimes it is a little more expensive but you at least you know where it comes from.

Sun 21 Sep 2008, 09:08

I will try the local in Finstock next time I'm there but I'm one of the ex patrons of local shops mainly because of the prohibitive prices. I nearly got charged £2 for a single small red pepper recently in a local shop. I tried to make the point that if the local was affordable I would shop there but the impression I got was that the proprietor wasn't really interested in customers that couldn't absorb her prices.

So be it.

Sat 20 Sep 2008, 10:36

finstock shop was also brought back 3 years ago it is run by the community and stocks things from local people like callow farm,foxbury farm,hawkins bread proctors fresh friut and veg and lots lots more it's worth a look. we also have a great wine selection
and stock bridwell wine.there's to many local things to list them all come and have a look you can also order meat veg box's and bread
if we can get we will.

Wed 17 Sep 2008, 19:04

Hello. I'm terrified of these heated debates...but having read the posts I'm going to say my bit. I moved here from London 2 years ago. I LOVE IT! Whilst I dont work in Charlbury, I am here every evening and at weekends. I own a service/retail business in Chipping Norton and I hear the same things being said there as well as in Charlbury. You only have to look at the empty retail units on the High Street. 2 things that spring to mind having read over the posts.....1: Jaffe and Neale (book shop in Chippy)- they serve coffee and cakes (made by a local mum) and its HEAVING with locals and also tourists. Its a "meeting place" for mums, business people, youngsters (they do bottle fruit smoothie type things too) retired people .....it may not make vast amounts of money on its cakes (I have no idea!) but it is the shop that most of the local Chippy community knows and is a great alternative to going to the pub to have a meeting. The presentation is immaculate - it serves the whole community and the coffee is great too one other bonus is you can squeeze a push chair or two in (I see lots of Mums and babies in Charlbury). Secondly: I like to shop locally and really want to go to The Good Food Shop but by the time I get back, its shut....I would give my left arm to be able to get a lovely "shove in the oven" home cooked meal from somewhere on the days when I can't be bothered to cook. Opening times are a nightmare to get right, but I have shifts in my business from 9am - 7pm and am always busy between 5-7 (I am just thinking of catching the people on their way up from the train station or driving back). On a different note, I had some pictures framed at Cotswold Frames in Charlbury the other week. EXCEPTIONAL service, GREAT framing. I would never go elsewhere again!

Wed 17 Sep 2008, 00:41

I've just eaten some of News and Things delicious ham! Local too. They also stock other food items, such as milk and locally produced cheese etc. Its worth checking out.

Sat 10 Nov 2007, 12:12

Very impressed to see that the New Barn Farm Shop is now opening on Saturdays, from 10am to 2pm. Their meat is excellent - worth supporting.

Sun 30 Sep 2007, 19:16

Dear Christine
I agree, I'm not proposing the replacement of anything in existence, on enlarging, and extending that which already exists.

Sun 30 Sep 2007, 14:57

Craig, Whatever the merits of the Chadlington store (& there are many), it's important also to register those of The Good Food Shop.
The Chadlington Store was raised from the ashes by the local villagers only in 2001. The Good Food Shop came into existence about 10 years earlier (when Social Enterprise schemes were far less fashionable)through the financial input of Charlbury residents who put in share capital without ever expecting much of a return. Perhaps the thriving lunchtime trade in sandwiches & snacks at the Sheep Street shop has limited what else it can do (in an extremely small space), but it continues to survive & serve local needs, & that must be good.

Fri 28 Sep 2007, 22:00

Is there any mileage in organising a meeting with the manager of Chadlington Food store, surely THE model in local food retail in the locality. Once a meaningful food-store is located in Charlbury, one which stocks locally grown food, and is structured along cooperative models, the people will flock. There is no reason at all to suggest a delicatessen wouldn't benefit. The second best change is to upgrade the library, its too small, a trip to the library could be combined with a one-stop shopping trip to a new and existing food-stores. The third best change would be a cafe combined with a bakery or even the Evenlode Bookshop, which is simply too small but highly welcome. And there is no reason whatsoever why that couldn't be planned alongside an upgraded library facility.

Finally, I have friends who visit us in Taston from London, who eye Charlbury with great interest and envy, as a retail centre with great potential, offering, for example, reclamation furniture and building materials - items which require care in selection and understanding for the locality. The worst that can happen to Charlbury retail is already happening, it'll never be a franchise location, but it ought to be mindful of the deadening semi-anonymous retail facades, where the shop signs provide no sense of ownership.

Mon 24 Sep 2007, 11:01

Dear "Helen Bach",
There's some good news and some bad news. The good news for most of us who live in Charlbury is that it is an inclusive sort of place where people of many different views and habits co-exist (usually) peacefully. Many people choose to live here precisely because of that mix which you don't always get elsewhere and which gives it a special community spirit. Yes, there are "tofu-munchers" but there are also those who love their Ditchley beef. Yes, there are Guardian readers but there are also Telegraph, Daily Mail, Sun and Mirror readers (sorry for any I've missed). There is no one group that "runs" Charlbury - as you seem to think - and the Town Council are not known for their Communist tendencies! Perhaps go to one of their meetings and you'll see for yourself. Now for the bad news. Maybe you've chosen the wrong place to live if you were hoping only to find people who share your outlook. On the other hand, with an open mind, you may learn to respect the differing views within our community.

Fri 14 Sep 2007, 00:33

I understand the Rose and Crown has a strict admission policy.

Thu 13 Sep 2007, 19:39

As this page is the future of retail in Charlbury, can I please add that there are two more pubs that would be glad of your custom at Street Fair, they are the Bull, and The Three Horse Shoes.
And if you are Football minded there is the Town Football Social Club
at The Spendlove Centre.Hope you enjoy yourselves where ever you have a drink.

Mon 10 Sep 2007, 07:47

As we only have 4 pubs, they are all pretty popular! However, for Street Fair, the Rose and Crown and the Bell are definitely the most popular. (Although I am biased!!)

Sun 9 Sep 2007, 21:20

We live in Newport Pagnell - nice town but bigger than Charlbury
We will be down Friday for the street fair and a few beers!
Hope the sun shines. Which are the most popular pubs with the locals?

Sat 8 Sep 2007, 22:33

Thank you Simon!! Lots of people who I speak to - complete strangers to Charlbury - absolutely love it because of its sense of community - and we are very lucky. You wont find the same atmosphere in Chippy or Witney! No way is it a commuter town, anymore that people who live in Witney and work in Oxford! Ed - where do you live?

Sat 8 Sep 2007, 21:23

I am not a resident in Charlbury but have a seasonal pitch at the caravan park - i.e we leave our caravan at Graham's site most of the summer and come most weekends. We love Charlbury. We live in Newport Pagnell nr Milton Keynes. I would love to move to Charlbury when the kids leave home!! For us it is great. It is not a Stow or Moreton(full of tourists) but enough is going on (4 pubs and some shops)! The one thing we notice is the sense of community - that we do not have in the town we live in. I loved the beer festival and we can't wait for the street fair next weekend. I envy you living in Charlbury!!

Thu 6 Sep 2007, 21:57

This forum clearly shows how many residents use the train every day and to my mind it is very much a commuter population.

With all the bitching about local shops, wouldn't it have been more constructive if local people had turned their attention to identifying opportunities and taking the initiative by starting a business selling refreshments and newspapers to commuters at the station.

Now I see that a catering business from Worcester has been given permission from the District Council to have a mobile catering unit at the station all day...much needed and long overdue but how much better if it had been done by locals.

Thu 6 Sep 2007, 10:19

As a followup to Jon's point about the number of people who read the site, yesterday we hit 500 registered users - and obviously many people who "just read" haven't registered.

Wed 5 Sep 2007, 11:38

Gareth: isn't it time you apologised for your attack on Bill and Veronica? You've had a month to do the decent thing. You personally may not find their shop useful, and they did fight against the opening of the new Co-op, but they have brightened the shop up and tried very hard to make a go of it, and they don't deserve your nasty attack. Very few people contribute to the Forum, but very many read it. You'd be surprised how much anger and resentment you generated, and it certainly doesn't do your political friends in Charlbury any good either. Not a good advert for LibDem politics!

I can say this even though I opposed their application, which I did because I believed it would create a disastrous precedent: if everyone who owns a shop (or pub for that matter) with accommodation above could convert the whole premsies to a house, we could immediately lose all the shops here, mine included, as all the landlords cashed in.

Mon 27 Aug 2007, 13:49

And can you also please learn how to punctuate and hyphenate your sentences correctly and how to spell?

Mon 27 Aug 2007, 12:46

Dear Helen,

Welcome to Charlbury Helen from the loony-lefty, politcally correct, short-sighted, communist wooley-minded neo-Stalinist, Sarkozy-supporting, protectionist, Mao worshipping faceless beauracrats, pinkos, communitarian,left-leaning Graunidad reading tofu munching, bourgouise hypocrites element of the town's society.

If you would like a genuine debate, please could you leave out the epithets and insults?

Sun 26 Aug 2007, 14:44

helen small is that in height or brain power welcome to charlbury.

Sun 26 Aug 2007, 08:52

Please do not feed the trolls.

Helen - as per the "Real names only" request, if you want your posts to be retained, please use your real name rather than a thinly disguised "Hell and back"; there are plenty of other forums on the Internet where you can troll under a pseudonym if that's what floats your boat.

Sun 26 Aug 2007, 03:07

Dear Charlbury

I have just moved to Charlbury having spent many years living in London. I thought I had escaped the loony-lefty, politcally correct way of life in the capital. I am incredulous of the short-sighted, communist mentality shown by the wooley-minded neo-Stalinist powers that are running this otherwise delightful…

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Mon 20 Aug 2007, 08:07

The sort of ideas suggested by the Oxford Enviroment Centre are exectly the sorts of things that could provide retail with a future in Charlbury. A change in opening hours and putting the shops next to the station would probably do wonders for trade in the town - although i can't see that helping out shops that already exist in the town centre.

And may I cheekily suggest, after recent events, that an aqua park might actually be a better idea in that part of Charlbury?

Sat 18 Aug 2007, 09:04

Mr Lavell's comments and Jon Carpenters comments are correct, I think that retail in Charlbury does mean servicing a high % of commuter people, what % ?........this also means what type of retail propfile is needed? when should retail facilities be open?,should the industrial park near the station be turned into a retail park, how about an survey?

Tue 14 Aug 2007, 08:43

I feel that my comments may have been taken out of context. When I referred to Charlbury as a "communter town", I was not doing the place down - but making a statement of fact. Oxford is a university city, Burford is a tourist town, Carterton a forces town and Witney is a market town (although whether it should carry this description in 2007 is a matter of debate).

Fact: Charlbury is a very pleasant town and has a train station with direct services to the Capital and Oxford. It is, therefore, popular with commuters and is by nature a commuter town.

Mr Carpenter is right to say that shops have to open that will serve this population of commuters. But he also says that "we shouldn't believe" the commuters and that they are responsible for "doing the place down". This implies to me that you shouldn't make constructive criticism of the town - or shop there - unless you have three generations buried in the churchyard. That would be one very effective way to alieanate a large number of potential customers!!

As a point of fact, the owners of News and Things supply the newspapers sold at Charlbury station so have attempted to serve this market of commuters - and I'd say the introduction of Italian coffee sold in the shop was an attempt to meet the needs of people more accustomed to buying their refreshments at Starbucks (ie commuters).

As I say, I don't mean to do Charlbury down, but if the local people are going to shop elsewhere for convenience then their probably isn't much demand for a place like News and Things in the towns, espescially when the Co op and Fiveways are already selling the same products.

EU constitntuion anyone? Yes please!!

Mon 13 Aug 2007, 11:00

I should like to reiterate the views expressed by Gareth Miller on the 22nd July. In my view the present owners of News and Things have gone way beyond what would normally be expected of the owners of a failing business. They appear to have tried everything, but nothing appears to have saved the business. The service they have bravely continued to provide will be sadly missed and of course it would be vastly preferable not to lose another shop. If anyone is willing to take on a failing business and pay a commercial price for it, then please let them come forward with proposals.
I note that the abuse of other contributors will not be tolerated, but the entry made on the 6th August by a non resident of Charlbury appears to invite contempt of the owners and is a serious and wholly unwarranted slur on their reputation which we can only hope was not intended. An immediate apology and withdrawal of the statement should be made and published on the Forum.

Sat 11 Aug 2007, 12:05

Charlbury's retreat from retail has not happened in the last few years: one shop has been replaced by another. The demand for shops is there: it's a question of whether people will run the shops that people want!
Yes, there are people who believe that 'Charlbury is a commuter town', but they are probably commuters themselves and evidently don't really know the town at all. They are the ones who tend to talk the town down: we just shouldn't believe them. And they do not see that more and more people are moving here with their businesses, or to work largely from home.
The Co-op has certainly encouraged more people to shop here: lots of my customers tell me that they shop elsewhere much less than they used. And it is certainly bringing more people here from outside, as I get more customers coming from further afield. Charlbury is much more of a centre now for Stonesfield, Spelsbury, Enstone, Finstock and Chadlington than it used to be.
Burford has on a resident population of 1340 (plus 430 at Fulbrook). Populations round here are Charlbury 2984, Stonesfield 1538, Enstone 1103, Finstock 707, Chadlington 828 and Spelsbury 330. That's something to build on.
And by the way, Tesco have a site lined up in Chippy, not Charlbury.

Sat 11 Aug 2007, 10:45

I must say i've never contibuted to a forum like this before but i am thoroughly enjoying the debate! Long may it last.

Anyway, back to the matter in hand. Mr Carpenter is correct to say Burford's retail revolution would never have happened if the shops had all been converted…

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Fri 10 Aug 2007, 16:36

Rusell - i've heard that DJ Co-op is quite good.

Mr Carpenter, in a rush right now but I will respond to your comments in due course.

Fri 10 Aug 2007, 11:07

By the way, the application to change the News and Things premises from shop and cafe to residential was refused by the District Council on August 6.

Fri 10 Aug 2007, 09:44

James is wrong: there are lots of people who shop and want to shop in Charlbury. My turnover (in the bookshop) is up on last year because I sell what people want to buy. The Coop is doing far better than they predicted: they can hardly cope with the store's popularity.

His example of Burford is interesting: if shops in Burford had been allowed to convert to residential, the improvements he describes would not have happened. It is not surprising that there is no room for three newsagents in Charlbury. Of course failing shops have to close, but it's absurd to suggest that they cannot - and will not - be replaced over time.

Fri 10 Aug 2007, 08:04

Nightclub in Charlbury, what an idea? Know any DJs?

It might also solve some of the issues of provision for younger people in town.

Thu 9 Aug 2007, 23:08

I've been reading these posts with interest. I note that nobody actually seems prepared to shop in Charlbury. There are plenty of comments about going to the Good Food Shop and what shops would be nice, but many authors recognise the reality that people get in their cars and shop…

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Mon 6 Aug 2007, 22:03

Any news then?

I have to say that though there's a need for more support for Charlbury traders, News & Things is a different case. From the time the current owners bought the premises, they have failed to get things going, had a massive whinge at the Co-Op (and were treated with great courtesy by them) and are now, in my view, trying to make a quick buck in the classic way.

Tue 31 Jul 2007, 18:02

Just a quick reminder again, the website for under 18s to have their say about the closing of News and Things is going well but there are only seven comments. Please could you ask any children you know you know that you think might be interested in this to visit www.savenewsandthings.piczo.com

Tue 31 Jul 2007, 17:09

I`ve lived in Charlbury all my life (66 years) and witnesed a slow but continuous decline in retail business. Office based business has on the other hand increased considerably. Perhaps this is a sign of the times and we should accept that main shopping will be done out of Charlbury.
That said, I do use both Fiveways Shop & the Co-op and would be extremely disappointed should either of them close.
Other retail shops will have to rely on the tourist trade, I believe and car parking will not make that much difference to whether it is successful or not.

Mon 23 Jul 2007, 10:17

I am sad to hear that News and Things could possibly close, they have provided a great service to Charlbury residents. Does anyone know whether any attempt has been made to try and sell it on as a business, or is the proposed planning application to apply for change of use to residential been the only route pursued so far?

Sun 22 Jul 2007, 20:44

I'm glad there is to be a public meeting about the future of News and Things. But before we all go voicing our opinions, has anyone actually bothered to ask the current owners for their views and feelings? It strikes me that they have tried incredibly hard to provide a very versatile facility, but have been unable to make a go of it. If we deprive them of their right to return it to residential use we will presumably be landing them with a far less valuable asset to sell and thereby reducing their ability to make proper provision for their future.

Sat 21 Jul 2007, 16:14

If children (under 18's) would like to have a say and save News and Things, then visit www.savenewsandthings.piczo.com

Fri 20 Jul 2007, 17:28

The Planning Sub-committee is meeting to decide the fate of News and Things on 6th August. I have been told that if anyone emails or writes to them before that date, their views will be taken into consideration. IT IS NOT TOO LATE TO MAKE YOUR VIEWS KNOWN. Please Use the email address below and use reference number "07/1008/P/FP" so they know which planning application you are referring to.

Thu 19 Jul 2007, 16:59

There will be an open meeting on Monday 23 July at 8 pm in the back room\conservatory of the Rose and Crown to discuss the future of News and Things. Everyone who is interested or who wants to get involved is welcome.

Tue 17 Jul 2007, 14:49

I have established that the deadline for objections on News and Things reverting to residential use has passed. However, it would still be useful to email the planner if you have views (point out that the planning notice was attached to a pole relating to the property next door and was not fully visible). Send to:

jon.westerman@westoxon.gov.uk

If you are interested in being involved in the future of News and Things (whatever that may be), please email me on:

suzymiddletonheath@msn.com

Fri 13 Jul 2007, 20:04

Has anyone thought about joining forces (as happened with the Good Food Shop becoming community owned, I believe)to buy out News and Things and keep it going as a newsagents, cafe and possibly incorporate the Good Food Shop? I've heard that the Good Food Shop would like bigger premises to run a cafe. I don't think we should let News and Things go without a fight and the first thing would be to ensure that it doesn't revert to residential use. Does anyone have any useful information? Also, is there anyone who would like to join with me to investigate "rescuing" News and Things? If it was community-owned and run just to break even, not for profit, it could work.

Wed 11 Jul 2007, 10:19

Parking charges on the Spendlove site would not encourage people to walk more. Like the charges of the station car park, they would encourage car-owners to evade the charges by parking on-street in the centre of Charlbury.

Tue 10 Jul 2007, 21:03

I don't think that this is just an issue of retail. I support the notion of a compact and that the Coop should accept some conditions of trade. They claim to be sustainable in ther national advertising, but the reality is very different.

But maintaining retail in Charlbury is not just about the number of shops. I want to preserve Charlbury as a community, and the essence of community is people and meeting people. If we end up with one shop, which most people visit in their cars, we won't have that lovely - "took me ages to go to the shops because I met so many people" conversation. If we don't generate traffic, then we really start to lost the heart of our community. That's what counts and why we should be trying to retain retail. And Jon Carpenter, I accept about competition and the need to rise to the occasion in many circumstances, but not in a community like this.

I'd like to see parking charged for at the Spendlove, so that people walk more.

This is from Liz Reason. I don't know why this message carries my daughter's name, lovely though she is!

Sun 8 Jul 2007, 08:51

By the way the charter I have in mind would also include all retail units and businesses(+ the Co-op) the agreement would include
1. Funding market research of what people buy in the area, how much they spend and where they buy
2. An agreement that businesses would buy onloy from local stockists in Charlbury i.e all low energy light bulbs from, newspapers from, framing and pictures from, books from..........
3. A discount would be offered to the people who sign up up the charter and these funds who go back into promtions.
4. A town plan would be developed, say administered by the Chamber of Commerce

Although I do not live in CHarlbury I am trying to help here

These are some ideas
Thank you
James Robertshaw FCMA

Sat 7 Jul 2007, 12:26

A LOAD OF RUBBISH !

Its Bad enough that retail in Charlbury is having a hard time but what sort of message are we giving out to visitors to our town when after parking in Spendlove car park that the first sight they see is all the rubbish around the Co-op, it must seem like they are walking through a council pit, whilst the rest of the retail sector seem able to keep their area's tidy its a shame that their first impressions of the centre turn out to be well a load of rubbish !

Sat 7 Jul 2007, 11:01

Would the Charlbury residents and surrounding villages be interested in signing a Sustainability Retail Charter for Charbury, which would run along the lines that the retailers agree to supply what the public of Charlbury want ( which would mean a poll of the public), the shops stock what the public want and come up with some ideas on the exisiting businesses, the public and retailers swear and declare that they will buy from the local reetailers. Would that work and make retail thrive in Charlbury.......a committment of honour from the public?

Fri 6 Jul 2007, 20:51

lets face facts the people that use this site are a minority. mostley commuters that come here to live the good life. it does not exist you can be green black or blue it makes no difference at the end of the day big business rules. this goverment or any other is just here to shaft you with ridiculous rates and taxes smallfirms do not make big donations to political parties and buy up land to stop any opposition.let us face the truth charlbury retail wise is dying a death welcome to the new burford.

Fri 6 Jul 2007, 15:15

Actually I'm all for the Co-op. When they opened they fell over backwards to talk to shopkeepers and were very generous to News and Things. But small shopkeepers do get rattled when supermarkets start encroaching on their patches. However, in fact, and as I said, I think the shops can rise to the challenge. Let's hope that happens.
It used to be the case that when a shop failed, someone else would move in and run a new and hopefully more successful one. Nowadays, the closure of a shop is often followed by a planning application to extinguish the retail use before anyone else can have a go. As with the News and Things premises. We don't want that to happen again.

Fri 6 Jul 2007, 11:54

I'm not sure that we can claim a food shop should have a monopoly on washing powder, nor a Post Office a monopoly on dry cleaning!

Fri 6 Jul 2007, 10:47

The Old Bank (was Barclays, more recently an insurance agency, next to Chancellors) is now to let at £17,500 pa for 1750 square feet, retail use. Prime location. Any takers? Or sharers? Twice the space of John Brain's for twice the price.
By the way, James, surely it is fair to point out that your shop is primarily an office, and only open half the day. If you were running an eco-shop like the Green Shop near Stroud, you could have one hell of a market. Organic bedlinen, paints, electronic stuff etc. People would come miles.
Meanwhile another stab in the back from the Co-op. They now sell Ecover (Good Food Shop), and they've started doing dry cleaning (Post Office). But I take the view that the Co-op is a challenge we can rise to. After all, I'm sure they'll be selling Harry Potter too.

Sat 30 Jun 2007, 14:26

I just bought some of the Crudge's cheese to try as well, Sue. Would also try the proposed soft sheepy one too, when it is developed. You heard it here first, folks! Food miles = 0.01

Sat 30 Jun 2007, 14:21

I've just tried some cheese which is new into the Good Food Shop and - according to the weekend papers - is only otherwise available in Oxford Covered Market. It's called Crudge's Cheese and it comes all the way from Kingham. Eat local!

Sat 30 Jun 2007, 13:48

I think the Good Food Shop does a great job in catering for a diverse set of customers, from jam-tart munchers to the organic goat's milk crowd. The point about it is that you can get stuff there, on the doorstep, which you'd have to search long and hard for…

Long post - click to read full text

Sat 30 Jun 2007, 12:50

There are occasions when I wonder what sort of fantasy planet some people live on. What is the point of talking about what shops Charlbury "wants" or "needs", as if Charlbury was some strange creature with a mind of its own? It isn't. It is a place inhabited by real…

Long post - click to read full text

Sat 30 Jun 2007, 11:02

It seems Susie Finch has either rose coloured spectacles about the past or a short memory. We have been 20 years in Charlbury and, if her numbers are correct, at least seven of the shops she lists were gone by the time we arrived. One, the VG Shop, closed between acceptance of our offer on the house and moving in. This hardly points to them all being viable businesses. The former owner of one tells us that a big factor was the closure of the secondary school – staff and pupils were no longer shopping in the town. Of those that were still here in 1987 at least two – Mrs Lay’s and The Wool Shop were kept ‘ticking over’ as an occupation for their elderly owners. Businesses that do survive seem to be those that have adapted to changing needs, such as the Good Food Shop, or not wholly dependent on over the counter sales, such as Jon Carpenter’s.
Christine Battersby is right, the high costs of retail premises and the limited market are what make businesses non-viable. David Whittaker, Jon’s predecessor described the shop as ‘just expensive storage’ and the two Peters who ran Charlbury Interiors were forced out by hikes in rent
Tony & Judith Graeme

Fri 29 Jun 2007, 16:57

We were told some time ago what rent was quoted for the butcher's shop: £8000 pa plus nearly £2000 rates. If that's really the case, then only businesses that sell high value items (like stoves!) could make a profit.
It's sad; but unless we can some kind of Council subsidy, matters will only get worse. Also a lot of the Charlbury shop premises have inadequate internal space. An exception in "News and Things" which is one reason it is particularly sad if this shop reverts to residential.

Fri 29 Jun 2007, 14:13

But why arent they financially viable? Is it the residents of Charlbury's fault for not supporting these shops? Is it because the choice isnt there? Are they the wrong sort of shops for Charlbury. Or is it lack of marketing, duplication of the same (as with News and Things, Post Office etc). 23 years ago when I first moved here we had a vibrant shopping community. All were financially viable. You could buy almost everything here - I think the only things not available were acutally clothes. We had shoe shops, 2 banks, 4 garages (one of which sold petrol) and one which did cycle repairs, 6 food shops, a hardware shop, 3 estate agents, computer shop, wool shop, furniture (Wesley Barrell) manufacturers and shop, greengrocers, garden shop, gun shop x 2, butchers, TV shop etc etc. At News & Things you could even buy the school uniform. All the shops were needed - and they all gave a huge choice - I think that is the problem now - there is not enough choice in each shop.

Fri 29 Jun 2007, 13:38

It's all very well saying what shops you need and want in Charlbury.
But are you the one willing to put down the financial backing and commitment. The majority of shops have been in Charlbury at some ime or another, and where are they now. Closed... and alot of them just because they aren' t financially viable.

Fri 29 Jun 2007, 07:38

Interesting discussions there are at least 3 shops coming up to rent in Sheep Street, does anybody in Charlbury want to have a go.....if so give me a call and I will tell you where they are
Thanks James Robertshaw 07930-395344

Thu 28 Jun 2007, 18:56

I feel strongly that we need to have more shops that we would use regularly. A proper deli selling fresh foods as well as ready cooked items to take away would be great. A wine shop, a farm shop perhaps selling produce from all the nearby farms and suppliers from meat to honey to cheese and bread, etc. What we seem to have is shops for ocassional/incidental purchase such as a gift/art shop or even the Good Food shop which is great for organic oatcakes or a lunchtime sandwich but not a proper deli or traiteur. And do we really need an Aga shop in Charlbury when there is a huge Aga showroom in Deddington? I think shop owners should find out what us locals want and start catering to our daily needs rather than chasing the scant pounds they can get from the tourist or ocassional trade, which I don't believe is a sustainable strategy. As there is increasing hype about food miles and buying locally, why not seize the opportunity to return to the times when local shops supplied many of the daily needs of the community? The farmers' market does well (from what I see) and if I could buy that type of produce daily from a local seller than I would have no need to go outside Charlbury for it.

Thu 28 Jun 2007, 17:16

Sadly, Don, that shop closed about 8 years ago. News and Things then tried selling just the things you describe, but gave up after sales didn't justify it.

Thu 28 Jun 2007, 14:57

A general hardware shop would be nice.The sort of shop that sells small screws,hacksaws,and those little round plasticy things at the end of the cords you get on bathroom lights.

Thu 28 Jun 2007, 01:17

I know we have a super deli - but I was thinking more on the lines of the food hall at Harrods or Fortnums!

Wed 27 Jun 2007, 21:33

A really good wine shop would be great!

Wed 27 Jun 2007, 17:58

Susie - Why do we want another super Deli, I have always thought that the Good Food Shop is a super Deli!!

Wed 27 Jun 2007, 17:41

Not only that but the shops that are empty now, should be specialist type shops - eg. super deli or wine shop or aga shop! This brings in people from outside of the town, who in turn spend money in the town, if you see what I mean!

Wed 27 Jun 2007, 16:56

Fantasic news about supporting the garage, please let us have more of it in Charlbury and also in Sheep Street....come on folks

Wed 27 Jun 2007, 15:56

people moan about losing the buthcher yet don't seem to be supporting the new farm shop in Nine Acres (at the garage). Their meat and eggs are excellent, their sausages far better than John's were - so rather than going to Waitrose why not give them a try?

Wed 27 Jun 2007, 15:15

Any shop has to turnover enough money to pay the bills, it is not about getting your hands dirty, it is about a return on your investment and meeting a demand for products and service, If the people of Charlbury go elsewhere for products then local demand is non exisitant, if there is too much supply then demand for each business is low. All our business is out of Charlbury not in Charlbury , the residents of Charlbury appear to be serviced for our type of goods by other companies. Poor demand mean no retail units.

Wed 27 Jun 2007, 14:58

The trouble is that there is no money in selling cups of coffee, and the tables take up a lot of real estate! You'd need to sell food, but the pubs do excellent light lunches and the cafe in Sheep Street failed. Also, people have to run the shops they want to run! Charlbury is lacking in people who want to get their hands dirty and actually run shops!
I'd have put my bets on a deli in the old butcher's shop.

Wed 27 Jun 2007, 12:53

Is there any mileage in combining shops? Such as - books AND coffee shop; or the Good Food Shop AND coffee; or Cotswold Frames AND coffee; or the Post Office AND coffee (you get my drift). It seems a shame for all sorts of people in Charlbury if there is no longer any central meeting place in the daytime. In the absence of the Community Centre, which may or may not ever come.

Tue 26 Jun 2007, 19:07

Why does ' nt someone in Charlbury find out how each retailer is doing, try doing a poll......I think the residents eyes may be opened up on how difficult it is to operate a retail business in Charlbury as 60-70% of the rrtail units are struggling, I exclude the well supported chains. I am talking about independant retailers and they need help now

Tue 26 Jun 2007, 18:14

Not guilty - honest. By the way, will pick up Harry Potter on w/c 23rd, as away on 21st.

Tue 26 Jun 2007, 12:19

Before anyone else tells me that I'm closing the bookshop and moving to Witney, can I please scotch the rumour once and for all? On my way in to Charlbury on the bus this morning, the driver told me he'd heard I was closing! (Nothing to do with you having been on the bus earlier, I hope, Susie?) I'm here for the indefinite future...

Mon 25 Jun 2007, 09:02

With regard to Richard's post on the news re "Look for Local", you will find that Fiveways also have local produce - their ham is delicious! I am sure they do other stuff - but this is all I have bought.

Mon 25 Jun 2007, 07:28

Since the introduction of free local travel for the over 60's many are now travelling to places like Witney and Oxford for their shopping as it does not cost them anything and it means a trip out. This is not only Charlbury but across the county, and even towns like Witney lose trade to shops in Oxford for the same reason.

Sun 24 Jun 2007, 16:27

If ever you go to Fiveways and they havent your favourite whatever in stock, they will then get it for you, and carry on stocking it. Why cant the rest of the shops do this? But they do have to know - which means we do have to tell them! I am sure the chemist will stock favourite shampoos etc, if asked.

Sat 23 Jun 2007, 16:58

Like Susie, since the Co-op expanded I also now do most of my shopping locally. But I'm finding some of the recent changes (loss of the butcher's; change of range of toiletries & day-to-day items stocked in the pharmacy) mean that I'm tempted to look outside Charlbury more and more.
Yes, I know it's possible to order goods & then pick them up a few days later; but in practice I don't do this. Perhaps some of the other shops in Sheep Street could boost their trade by considering the gaps in provision in the other shops. This includes LOCAL foods (apart from those stocked by the excellent Good Food Shop), as well as toiletries.

Sat 23 Jun 2007, 15:20

Well actually we have found the opposite to be true, since the advent of the Co-op. We now do 90% of our shopping in Charlbury - if you go to a larger supermarket, you are more tempted to buy stuff you dont need. With the demise of News & Things, I think it should all shake us up to use all the retail outlets in Charlbury as much as we can. Use it - or lose it.

Fri 22 Jun 2007, 20:52

I have been told by traders in Sheep Street that a major problem stems from Charlbury's parking restrictions and the (to my mind) now redundant one way system, which keeps people away from the town centre. While I try to do virtually all my shopping here, I suspect that it is a losing battle because as far as I can see most people prefer to drive to a big supermarket in Witney or Chipping Norton or Oxford, and regard even the Coop as a place of last resort. I try not to let these gloomy thoughts make me sad, but they do!

Tue 19 Jun 2007, 09:52

tricky question. I suppose all the obvious stuff - shop locally etc.
Maybe they should consider extending the cafe side as that's what Charlbury lacks?
Is there any local organisation along the lines of the London-based "Save our small shops" which is regularly featured in the London Evening Standard?

Mon 18 Jun 2007, 18:48

Sheep Street in Charlbury is proving to be a difficult place to trade in for retailers, how can the people of Charlbury stop all the shops closing in Sheep Street? 2 have closed in the last few months, with News and Things now closing. I know at least 2 other shops that have very poor turnover. How can the people of Charlbury stop any more shops from closing? Any comments ? James Robertshaw