Cornbury Park Licence Application

Wed 12 Jan 2011, 22:54

Hi all,

Here's the licensing panel decision, emailed to me in a letter from WODC today:

Having considered all representations made in writing and at the hearing and all other relevant considerations, the Panel decided to approve in part the application as set out in the operating schedule, more particularly…

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Tue 11 Jan 2011, 21:16

The BBC (gosh: aren't we getting famous?) is carrying quite a good summary of the Council's decision at www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-12161738.

Now that's out of the way, and the Charlburian spirit of compromise sdeems to havbe prevailed, might we all hint to Hugh and the Rotherwicks that we'd all be a great deal happier (and they'd be a great deal better off) if one them had the humility - or common sense - to blink first and move "their" event to a day when they weren't both fishing in more or less the same pool.

Tue 11 Jan 2011, 09:36

A great and equitable result out of yesterday's panel hearing on the premises license application...I won't "spill the beans" on the detail because we should wait for the published statement from the panel which should be out within 10 days.

Basically, the license was granted but with more conditions to control the number and nature of events, and further regulate noise.

This is a good result for those in support of Cornbury and the Wilderness Festival, which can go ahead, and, I would think (but correct me if I'm wrong), a good result for objectors.

I thought the panel of WODC councillors (Ian Hudspeth, Simon Hoare and Richard Langridge) did a very good job. My faith in the democratic process remains intact. Phew!

Now, I can get back to work...

Best to all, Cally

Tue 11 Jan 2011, 09:31

John, my understanding is that it went through. Whilst I am delighted the application was approved, unfortunately, it is now the case that we will have 2 festivals on one weekend, which will inevitably mean the demise of at least one of them.

Mon 10 Jan 2011, 19:25

So, is anyone going to spill the beans on the outcome of today's licensing hearing?

Mon 10 Jan 2011, 08:56

Dear all

The WODC licensing officer has just emailed me that anyone else wishing to withdraw their objection (or indeed, any representation) may do so by email this morning by email to Bill.Oddy@westoxon.gov.uk cc'd to Debra.Courtenay-Crane@westoxon.gov.uk

Withdrawls of representation will be noted at the beginning of the hearing, which begins at 2pm today.

I'm not trying to lobby you! Just to point out that if anyone has changed their mind because the application is now watered down, and because of assurances from Lady Rotherwick from Saturday's meeting, minuted below at forum.charlbury.info/cgi-bin/dview.cgi?thread=1213&post=8480, there's still time to do so this morning.

Best regards to all, Cally

Sun 9 Jan 2011, 15:19

I'm glad to report that the meeting yesterday (to which locals were invited to put questions to Lady Rotherwick) seemed to be a great success.

I'm not at liberty to share names of attendees at that meeting, but there were 13 plus Lady R and me. The 13 included both…

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Sun 9 Jan 2011, 11:10

Hi all,
just to reiterate my previous post, I'm a supporter of the application. Unfortunately I can't be at the licensing panel to make this known as I'm working away.

I should say that while I support this from a personal point of view, I am also the treasurer of the Pre-School and the fund raising that we can do at the Cornbury events is much needed. The Pre-School, a charity, runs at a loss if there aren't sufficient numbers of children and it is vital that we have a financial buffer to get through periods where this is the case. Funds raised at previous Cornbury events have helped to ensure that we have that buffer, and as a parent I am very glad of that!

Ben

Sat 8 Jan 2011, 18:50

Cally - Well done and thank you for facilitating this afternoon's meeting with Lady Rotherwick. I am sure that if there had been more of the 'objectors' there, they would by now be re-assured that the Rotherwicks have absolutely no intention of increasing the number or size of the events and that all they are proposing is a straight replacement for the Cornbury Festival, (having been so badly let down by the previous organiser), the car rally already announced for May and hopefully the holding of the Wychwood Forest Fair.
Lady Rotherwick was at great pains to explain that the way the application was original lodged was at the request of WODC who said they would prefer a single licence application rather than having to deal with seperate and individual applications each and every time they wanted to hold anything on the estate.
It was also quite surprising to note that despite the original application being scaled down on 10th December and the revised application details (listed below by Cally) being available online on the WODC website as part of the formal process, there are obviously many individuals and groups still unaware of the changes.
One particular 'group' appear to be the Charlbury Town Council, who voted to object to the original proposals at their November meeting, but appear to have taken no steps to review their stance in respect of the reduced application. I have to wonder whether all of our Town Council representatives actual know about the reduction, depite the information being available all this time?
Should they not have re-considered this at their December meeeting on 15th or failing that called an emergency meeting?

Fri 7 Jan 2011, 18:40

This is a formal invite to everyone on behalf of Lady Rotherwick.

Please do come to the Estate Office at 3.30pm tomorrow, Saturday 8th January. Lady R/Tania will welcome the chance to answer questions about the festival, plans for events in the Park, the license application etc

The Estate Office is in the Stableblock car park at the top of the drive. Enter through the North Lodge Gate near Charlbury, go to the top of the drive, and enter the car park via the gates on the left.

As I'm trying to coordinate this on behalf of Lady R, I'd appreciate if you could drop me a quick line if you're able to come along. Then I'll know how many chairs we need to put out.

PS As a result of the watered down application that is now being set before the licensing panel this Monday, I'm happy to report that many who had written letters of objection originally are now expressing their support for the amended application and the Estate going forward.

Best regards,

Cally

Fri 7 Jan 2011, 13:55

I've voiced my support for this in the past on this forum, and how vital Cornbury Festival has been in terms of fundraising for the school and pre school. But here's another thought that doesn't seem to have been aired yet. It seems clear to me that the Rotherwicks need to run Cornbury Park as a business. It is a vast estate and we live in the 21st century. If we don't allow and trust them to do that, then how long will their business survive in the current climate? If Cornbury Park has to be sold, then what then? Luxury hotel and golf course (no public access)? Sprawling housing estate?

Thu 6 Jan 2011, 12:21

This is a case of 'if you want to get to there, I wouldn't start from here'!

Anyway, there has obviously been discussion with all parties behind the scenes (hence the 'damage limitation' agreement with the police etc.) and I'd assume that the council officers and committee chair have been through it all and doubtless discussed it with the Rotherwicks too. The meeting is on Monday and unless a rogue councillor comes up with something that breaks the consensus, I imagine the decision is effectively made.

If the application is thrown out, it will be on technical grounds, and if objectors have misunderstood or misinterpreted it, their objections will not count. I think it is the Rotherwicks who can do most to avert an adverse outcome: it looks to me as if the question will be whether they did too little too late, or whether an acceptable compromise has or can be agreed.

Incidentally, with regard to the charity events, why are they under threat? Why can they not take place on the same basis this year as in previous years? Or are people saying that they have been held illegally for all these years? I can't believe that a walk in the park needs a licence?? And as for something like the Forest Fair: several different farmers have hosted this over the years. There can't be an unsurmountable problem!

Thu 6 Jan 2011, 11:45

Jon, You are right that the whole situation could have been better managed by Cornbury/The Rotherwicks. However, surely the point now is- What do we (as a Town/a community) do to avert a scenario where the licence application is thrown out and everyone involved loses out?

Thu 6 Jan 2011, 09:11

What a very great shame that the terms and intentions of the original application do not reflect the declared wishes of the Rotherwicks. I imagine a consultant or lawyer or someone similar took the application over and used a broad brush without properly going through the issues with his/her client.

Something similar happened a few years back when Cornbury applied to build a village of about 100 timber holiday homes on the edge of Finstock: no one bothered to tell Lord and Lady R that it would drive a coach and horses through all the local planning regulations, and it was thrown out in its entirety (and made most of Finstock extremely hostile towards towards, and suspicious of, Cornbury). How unfortunate on all counts. But I'm sure the firm that came to Finstock Village Hall with their research and colourful presentation collected a fat fee.

It would have been so much better if the present application had been preceded by a public meeting and consultation, as would have been the case if it were a planning application. As a licensing application, it seems the same rules do not apply.

I can't speak for others, but if the application that was submitted had been couched in the terms now suggested (but it wasn't), and if it had been made clear that four long-weekend pop festivals organised by the HMV Group were not going to be the result (but it wasn't), and that the purpose AND the effect was merely to legitimate what takes place in Cornbury already (but it wasn't), I would certainly have felt very differently about it.

Cornbury needs someone to handle local PR before the next disaster.

(By the way, surely new safety regulations will apply regardless of other conditions?)

Wed 5 Jan 2011, 23:51

Following a query about the actual amounts raised for local charities out of previous Cornbury festivals, I have asked for figures from the Pre-School and Charlbury School Associations, and will revert. If anyone knows organisers of the Charlbury 10K, maybe they could make some enquiries too.

I also took the liberty of querying Lady Rotherwick directly on the amount of actual fundraising from events in the Park which might be jeopardised if the application is turned down or is burdened with conditions that are overly onerous to the charities (for example, paperwork to meet requirements of the newly added Safety Advisory Group).

Here are some early figures from Lady R (bearing in mind from my posting of 8th Dec, the below represents only some of the fundraising events given use of the Park):

Finstock School 10K race and Easter Egg hunt - £3000

Helen and Douglas House Santa Run - £6500 in 2009

Breast Cancer Care 25 mile walk ? this starts at Blenheim, comes to Cornbury and then returns to Blenheim - £330,000

Multiple events in aid of ROSY (Respite Nursing for Oxfordshire?s Sick Youngsters) ? around £6000

NCPCC 25 mile hike - £15,000

BHF (British Heart Foundation) 5 and 10 mile run ? awaiting figures

Further, Lady R says they're so dismayed about the extent of speculation and objection that she'd be very happy to field any questions about Cornbury Park's activities, and the application, just to set the record straight. She has invited anyone - supporters, objectors or those simply interested in knowing more, to come along to the Estate Office at Cornbury at 3.30pm this Saturday and have a chat. I'll get more info about this and post again separately. But it does seem like a great opportunity to get info direct from the horse's mouth.

Best, Cally

Wed 5 Jan 2011, 23:04

Objectors should be pleased that new conditions have been applied to the application for the consideration by the panel at the hearing on Monday 10th Jan, viewable at www.westoxon.gov.uk/files/reports/10835.pdf.

These show that the Estate is now asking for a reduced number of events and earlier finish timings. Other new conditions…

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Wed 5 Jan 2011, 17:40

Helen
It is in Section P of the application, paragraph 4:-
1) Licensable activities will be limited to events held at the premises and will not be for general use
2) Events will be limited to
a) 4 events per annum where the proposed capacity exceeds a maximum attendance of 5000
people; (and in addition to these)
b) 10 events per annum where the proposed capacity is less than a maximum attendance of 5000
people
3) For the purposes of this application an "Event" means a period not exceeding four consecutive days during
which licensable activities can take place
4) For music events where the capacity is expected to exceed 5000 a designated "Main Arena" shall be
identified and the hours for regulated entertainment in the Main Arena will be limited to 10:00 to 00:00 on
each day of the event

Wed 5 Jan 2011, 10:21

John, I have a copy of the application in front of me, which clearly requests that the performance of live music, indoors or outdoors, might start at 10.00 a.m. and finish at 2.00 a.m. Nothing about a main arena. I appreciate this is a "blanket" request, and I have read the discussion about Cornbury only actually wanting one large live event (but being advised to ask for more) - but a legal document should state clearly what its purpose is; otherwise it is open to a myriad different interpretations. Helen Bessemer-Clark

Tue 4 Jan 2011, 23:40

For those who may have missed it, Lady Rotherwick posted in the News section on this website on 1st December www.charlbury.info/cgi-bin/dnews.cgi?id=700 that "It is NOT our intention to increase the number of events held at Cornbury."

As stated by her, the only reason Cornbury Park applied for this kind of…

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Mon 3 Jan 2011, 16:59

Helen,
I think you may be slightly incorrect in your comment about the late finishing time. For any event where there are more than 5000 attendees there has to be a designated 'main arena' and the music has to finish at midnight not 2am as you state.

Sun 2 Jan 2011, 18:34

I am writing in a private capacity, not as a Town Councillor. I have read the various pros and cons of this application, and one point seems to have been missed - this is the matter of Cumulative Impact. Currently, the Cricket Club have permission, from April to November, for up to ten activities to take place on the outfield, and with a marquee for dancing and music. The Beer Festival operates on one weekend in July, the Riverside Festival on a weekend in June. This means that it is possible for music to reverberate through Charlbury on at least 12 weekends, all in the summer. If the Cornbury licensing application goes through, this could add another 4 weekends, presumably also mostly in the summer. Due to the atmospheric and geographical structure of the town, whereby noise travels in strange routes, and is exacerbated across water, this means that many people will find they are unable to enjoy their gardens in peace for 16 weekends during the summer. I appreciate that many of these functions are of a fund raising nature - but it would be interesting to learn the actual amounts that have been raised heretofore for local charities from the previous Cornbury Festivals. I know that Cornbury Park hosts many valuable and much appreciated low-key charitable events, but my main objection to their latest application for possibly four musical events of up to 20,000 people is against the NOISE that could be generated throughout many parts of the town, thus preventing many residents from enjoying, what is surely their right, to peace in their own homes and gardens and a quiet night's sleep. (Cornbury application states events will continue until 2.0 a.m.) Helen Bessemer-Clark

Thu 23 Dec 2010, 14:42

Having decided to scan through all the objectors letters, I just wonder out of interest and assuming that Lord & Lady Rotherwick were actually thinking of putting on anything more than 'The Wilderness Festival' in July (to replace the previously Cornbury Festival, if one of the larger events were a series of 'classical' music concerts/proms, as opposed to 'rock/pop' concerts, would everyone still be so against the licence application? They would still have to apply for licence in the samer way.
It just seems that everyone has automatically assummed that there are going to be a whole series of badly controlled over-noisy rock festivals - which I simply cannot believe would be in the mind of Lord & Lady R.

Wed 22 Dec 2010, 20:58

If anyone is interested there are 75 letters of objection lodged with WODCfor the Licensing Committee heaing on Mon 10th January and just 9 in support.
Appedices B & C on the following WODC webpage if you want to see who has submitted what:- www.westoxon.gov.uk/council/meetings.cfm/2535

Fri 10 Dec 2010, 15:48

Brian, first of all I only every respond to anything on the Forum as my own opinion, unless its a fact that someone is asking for.

However, can I just say that I have just been made aware that Cornbury Park did in fact speak to the District Council and it was WODC who recommended that they apply for a premises licence. Cornbury Park were happy to just go with a licence to hold the Cornbury Festival.

I (as myself) would be happy to support an application for just the festival, as I am sure most people would and its only a shame that West Oxfordshire District Council persuaded them otherwise.

I will be writing to WODC to make them aware of this and would urge you all to do the same.

Susie (as myself!!)

Fri 10 Dec 2010, 09:58

Susie, thank you for responding. I wasn't angling for a response but thank you for trying to shed light on things.

Thu 9 Dec 2010, 23:06

Susie, may I ask that when you make a posting on the Forum, whether the comment given be yours personally, or is your understanding as a Town Councillor of the T.C.'s position or is your view as a Forum site administrator. That way we'll all know where you are coming from.

Thu 9 Dec 2010, 15:06

Jenny, the Town Council are only one voice, and WODC are not obliged to take any notice of what we say. The Town Council are just a statutory consultee, as with planning. As with Planning applications, we judge the plans of the proposed building on the plans submitted, not on what we would like it to be; we have applied the same principle to that of the licence application. Cornbury Park have been invited to come and talk to the Town Council to update them on their plans for events at the park in 2011. Hopefully this will be either in December or January. WODC came to speak to the Town Council last month before we considered the licence application from Cornbury Park and gave us all the information they had.

Thu 9 Dec 2010, 10:54

It is exasperating that the Town Council (see Susie Finch's post) have decided to simply object, rather than being open to trusting the Rotherwicks integrity and asking them why the application was made in the way (as a premises licence) it was. It might have emerged sooner that it was WODC who asked them to do it that way. I'd agree that the Rotherwicks could have managed the sharing of information better but two wrongs don't make a right and the Town Council's stand could be costly, assuming that their objection will carry considerable weight.

Thu 9 Dec 2010, 00:34

I say support the application. But, whether you are for or against,
please don't confuse the issue of the rights and wrongs of competing festivals at Cornbury &/or Tew with the issue of Lord Rotherwick's application to hold events at Cornbury.

Put aside your sentimental feelings for the festivals promoted…

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Wed 8 Dec 2010, 09:26

Cally, well done for writing this. It is important information that I hope people will take on board.

Wed 8 Dec 2010, 07:30

I totally agree with Cally and well said. It is always better to respond rather than react in these situations and to get your facts straight first. I have run in the BHF race and it was great fun and raised lots for a good cause. I for one am a doer and would love to have a choice of events to attend on my doorstep not to mention the pluses for local business like our pubs, B&Bs and local shops. It's a shame Pavarotti isn't still with us and Take That can come anytime!!!

Wed 8 Dec 2010, 00:51

I felt it was necessary to get more information before I could fully weigh up the implications of objection to the Cornbury Parks premises licence application.

It might interest you to know that it IS possible for a premises license to be granted with restrictions and requirements, but those restrictions…

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Tue 7 Dec 2010, 21:06

I personally support the application and would be pleased to see a wide variety of music come to Charlbury. We've lived here for two years and one of the reasons we moved to Charlbury is that it has a vibrancy and interesting events going on that you don't get in your typical Cotswold town.

We can only second guess what the reasons for applying for such a large number of events are but I would imagine it is to cover all bases. I can't imagine that they would have the will or the demand to put on anywhere near 14 large events a year.

One of the downsides for the average local resident who might not be interested in such events is that there will be a degree of disruption to the area. I'd rather that than there be nothing going on at all. If things are properly organised and policed this should be minimized.

I have a family and enjoy inclusive events with them, but don't think that all festivals at Cornbury necessarily need to be family friendly. Also most other festivals go on for three days. I think an event that did so at Cornbury might encourage more punters and be more likely to be a success.

Tue 7 Dec 2010, 16:07

Obviously I hope Hugh Phillimore's festival succeeds, but as it's now in Great Tew I don't really see that it has any more relevance to Charlbury than the frequent events at, say, Blenheim or even Oxford. Nor should it stop any Charlbury organisation or business from organising a festival here.

A festival held at Cornbury brings business and employment to Charlbury, and is likely to continue to support local charitable organisations. For those reasons I would personally support it unless there was a compelling reason not to do so.

I find it hard to get worked up about a few innocuous melodies on the breeze (even if they are the accursed James Blunt); in the last few days, the auditory experience in our house has comprised country & western at the Memorial Hall, blues at the Rose & Crown, several shop deliveries, the WODC synchronised bin lorry display team, and at 2am one day, some poor chap having a nervous breakdown on the street outside. To be honest I'd be surprised if we could even hear the distant wailing of Mr Blunt above any of this. (Though I will grant you that "You're Beautiful" is a serious danger to anyone's mental health in itself.)

Tue 7 Dec 2010, 15:10

For all those who say it would be a shame to loose the Cornbury Festival (as it was, run by Hugh Phillimore) I agree, and yes he did alot for Charlbury organisations. However, this new licence application is a premises licence (Hugh had his own licence) for Cornbury Park to hold not one, but four festivals, each up to four days, from 10am to 2pm, and the ability to serve alcohol for 24hrs. Do we really want this on our door step? If the application was for just one festival, as in the past, I don't think anyone would object, however Cornbury Park have asked for the maximum they are allowed to. You have to object to the application as it stands; with recommendations for amendment. The Town Council spent a considerable amount of time discussing this, and the recommendation agreed by all was to object to the licence application as it stood.

Tue 7 Dec 2010, 10:12

Presumably this will present all the local fund-raising groups with a moral dilemma: Hugh Phillimore in his interview made it clear that he proposed to continue to support all the Charlbury groups and is keeping the 3rd stage named the Riverside - but I don't suppose we have the manpower to run tea tents at both events simultaneously...
I can't help thinking that Lord Rotherwick would do more to gain local support if he planned his event for a different weekend. I appreciate that the open-ended nature of the licence he has applied for means that one can't lodge an objection to a specific date - but while in principle I would support his right to carry on the festival tradition, in practice the choice of date will surely bring down a load of objections from everyone who has appreciated what Hugh has been trying to do.
Does anyone know what powers the licencing body has to qualify consents? Is it simply accept or refuse? Because if so Is there an option for this application to be refused because of its overly broad remit, but a second application which was more focussed be approved?

Tue 7 Dec 2010, 09:16

I support the application. Without it, it will mean the end of the festival. The notion that the Rotherwicks are planning a series of giant rock festivals in Cornbury is implausible. Apart from anything, there wouldn't be the demand. Cornbury Festival has been crucial for Charlbury in terms of fundraising for the primary school and pre school (tea tent and pig roast). With the thousands of pounds the school raises by running the tea tent, they have been able to afford climbing frames, swimming lessons, school trips and much needed classroom equipment. The Rotherwicks have clearly pledged to continue with their commitment to the school and pre school. They have also explained that this type of licence application is the only option they have. Surely the strains of David Gray floating over Charlbury over a couple of summer evenings is a small price to pay in return for the ecominic benefits this family friendly festival brings to our town.

Tue 7 Dec 2010, 08:40

We have somehow lost sight of the fact that the Cornbury application does NOT simply legitimise the status quo, despite an email I and doubtless others have received from Lord Rotherwick. If it did, I would support it.

No, it asks for permission to hold not just one, but FOUR festivals with an anticipated attendance of 19,999 each and various other provisions including a 24-hour alcohol licence. It seeks permission for a massive increase and expansion of the events at Cornbury. If no such increase in the number and scale of events is envisaged, why apply for them? It would obviously arouse local opposition, so why do so to no purpose?

Nor does the application specify dates (that's not a criticism, it's not appropriate for this type of licence). Being for or against the application says nothing about which dates events are held on, or who the charitable beneficiaries are. So being for or against the application has nothing to do with dates.

Mon 6 Dec 2010, 20:55

No. Both applications go to the same Licensing Committee on the same date. Richard put the report under the other Cornbury thread.

Mon 6 Dec 2010, 19:29

Out of interest, has Hugh actually got a licence himself for the 1st-3rd July and has he got any artists signed up yet. What would be a real disaster is for Lord & Lady R to change plans so as not to clash with Hugh and then find that Hugh can't go ahead anyway!

Mon 6 Dec 2010, 18:27

David, It's more than a rumour that the 2 festivals are on the same day. here is the link to the proposed Wilderness festival at Cornbury Park: www.cornburypark.co.uk/musicfestival.php
And here is the link to the Cornbury Festival at Great Tew: www.cornburyfestival.com/

Notice that they are both now 3 days. Since…

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Mon 6 Dec 2010, 14:12

I agree with many of the posters on here that objecting to the application will have a negative effect on various elements of our community. Having worked as part of the Riverside crew since the beginning at Cornbury, I know how hard people have worked to raise money (through tea tents etc) and awareness (through performances by The Shed etc)for Charlbury and it would be harmful to our community if an event didn't go ahead. I only hope that the rumours of a direct clash with Cornbury Festival at Great Tew are unfounded - it would be a fantastic opportunity to have 2 major events locally (in addition to the Riverside Festival) for the community to enjoy as well as using those events to raise significant funds for local organisations.

Whilst I fully support the right of people to have the opportunity to voice their objections, I would ask that they also consider the bigger picture - one weekend of some disruption and noise is a small price to pay to add a positive financial contribution to the primary school and other local groups

Mon 6 Dec 2010, 12:38

I was one, of many, who helped out in the Tea Tent to raise money for Charlbury primary school during the Cornbury Festival last year. It seems to me it would be a terrible shame (not to mention shooting ourselves in the collective 'foot')if by not voicing support for the licence application, the naysayers hold sway and the application is denied. Such fundraising and community action opportunities would be gone.
I believe the Rotherwicks are simply being proactive, having had the 'goalposts moved' on them. Expressions of trust in their integrity just now would be valuable.
The cut off date for representations is 10 Dec.

Mon 6 Dec 2010, 12:10

Fourteen events or just one? One, we are told, but the actual application asks for up to 14 and surely has to be taken at face value. So my objection, based on noise and traffic disturbance, still stands - as it would for only one event. Cornbury is a big place - why can't events be held where they can't be heard over a large part of the town?
Incidentally the West Oxon. Council's Statement of Licensing Policy 2010, section 2.5.8, says: 'In considering applications the Authority will primarily focus on the direct impact of the activities taking place at the licensed premises on members of public living, working or engaged in normal activity in the area concerned', so that is what I have based my objection on.

Mon 6 Dec 2010, 09:59

Ditto

Sat 4 Dec 2010, 22:47

I have just emailed a letter in support of the application to bill.oddy@westoxon.gov.uk. I too feel it is important to give a balanced representation of local feeling.

Especially with the 1st December post in the News section of this site clarifying that Cornbury doesn't intend to increase the number events in the Park, I feel it is important to appreciate the positive contribution events at the Park make to the local community.

Not only do local charities and causes benefit directly because of fundraising opportunities associated with the Park and its events, but also, events like the Festival all go towards keeping West Oxfordshire a vital community that caters to people of ALL ages.

Sat 4 Dec 2010, 16:48

Thanks for the address.
I hope my letter in support of their application goes someway towards setting a balanced view from Charlbury and not give the impression that the whole of the town object to the application.

Sat 4 Dec 2010, 14:40

John, The address is Bill Oddy, Head of Community Services, Elmfield, Witney, Oxon, OX28 1PB. I'm not sure about email attachments. You can email Debra.Courtenay-Crane@westoxon.gov.uk & ask about this. She replies to emails very speedily. I forgot to ask this (& would also like to know.)

BBC Oxford states that a number of Charlbury people have registered objections to Lord Rotherwick's application. See news.bbc.co.uk/local/oxford/hi/people_and_places/arts_and_culture/newsid_9246000/9246944.stm

Sat 4 Dec 2010, 11:42

Has anyone got the full and correct address for sending in representations?
Can they be sent in via email/or as attachments to emails?

Sat 4 Dec 2010, 11:37

Out of interest, is anyone thinking of sending in a letter of support for the application?
I just feel that if the only representations are objections, the licencing authorities won't necessarily know about the feelings of those in favour (or don't have a feeling either way.)

Wed 1 Dec 2010, 20:30

A couple of admin notes:

I've removed the disputed sections from the original news posting; as site admin I wouldn't want to make judgements one way or another on something that clearly the original poster thought was relevant and others disagreed with. I've also linked to the Town Council's posting on the issue and made people aware that there's discussion in the forum, while trying not to either endorse or conversely disapprove of any particular viewpoint. I'm sure the discussion will continue here.

Separately, and unconnected with this, I note that a news item has been posted here by Cornbury Park today which expresses their intentions on the subject, via several quotes.

Again, all the above is administrative comments rather than any opinion of the website or indeed any personal opinion of mine!

Wed 1 Dec 2010, 17:27

I think we should remember that Cornbury Park is the home of Lord and Lady Rotherwick. In the past, they have not organised any event which bears a similarity to anything resembling the fears expressed in this forum. Indeed I am sure that they would not want such an event to take part in their home any more than the residents of Charlbury who express concerns!
In the past, Charlbury has benefited greatly as a community from the festival. The Pre School, Primary School, Scouts and Brownies and The Shed have all been given the opportunity to raise funds, perform and be a part of the festival and I see no reason why this should change.
Many residents have enoyed the event for seven years and brought along family and friends to support and enjoy the festival. I think that we should credit Lord and Lady Rotherwick with the integrity to decide whether an event is suitable for 'Their own back yard', and to trust that they would not inflict an event on Charlbury which they are not able to live with themseves. I hope that the festival will continue to be an event that families will enjoy for many years.
The application for a licence if successful, would ensure that any event is regulated by the local authority and hence safeguard any fears of drug fuelled raves etc as alleged by some residents.

Sat 27 Nov 2010, 10:57

Jon's right about the wind speed - last year's festival was less audible from my house (Hughes Close) than those of previous years because the wind was not in the same direction, when it was possible to hear not just the music, but the words that bands on the main stage were singing and shouting and the audience too. And that's not because I knew the words of the songs. And also there's the music from the camp sites which goes on until after midnight, just as audible for the same reason - the prevailing wind carries it towards Charlbury.

Sat 27 Nov 2010, 10:45

Yes, there are two points in the news item, that need correcting:

(1) the decibel reading is irrelevant for the reason you give, but also because at that distance the reading will vary greatly according to wind direction and speed.

(2) the figure of 19,999 is NOT a maximum permitted attendance at the 4 major events. It is the answer to the question: "If 5,000 or more people attend the premises at any one time, please state the number expected to attend."

That's very different. I did post a second news item correcting this, but it was deleted, together with a link to this forum thread. Richard said he might correct the original, but hasn't so far. So I hope people come to the forum to find out more. Unfortunately, a lot of people will not look at the forum for reasons which in the past were very understandable.

Sat 27 Nov 2010, 01:19

I've now checked with WODC & anyone living within Charlbury is entitled to object to the application if they so decide. But objections have to be within the 4 licensing objectives: protection of children from harm; public safety; public nuisance; & crime and disorder. Objections have also to be received at WODC by 11 December.

Let's hope that Hugh Phillimore has announced where the old Cornbury festival -- about '10 minutes drive' from the old site -- is to be by then. He has promised a December announcement of the new venue after all. And it's entirely possible that we will have 2 competing festivals (both with estimated numbers of 20,000) on July 1st - 3rd.

I'm still puzzled as to why the news item states 'The Environmental Health Officer has informed the Town Council that at no point did sound levels exceed 55 decibels'. Since the old Cornbury Festival was put on by different organisers -- with different sound equipment & organisation -- the previous sound levels aren't much of a guide to those in the future.

Fri 26 Nov 2010, 08:59

You can download the application here and read it for yourself.

It is interesting that whereas planning applications are advertised and displayed by the district council, and all the documents can be downloaded from the council website, this is not the case with licensing applications like this. Nor does the council post public notices: this is the responsibility of the applicant, whose solicitors have displayed a notice at the main entrance to Cornbury Park in Park Street (with a threat of a £5000 fine if you misrepresent the facts of the case, so be careful what you say: an opinion might be costly!). There may be other notices too at other entrances to the estate: I don't know. But there is certainly nothing on the notice boards in the town that I have looked at.

Thu 25 Nov 2010, 13:03

It's back on the news page. I've seen the application, and whatever Cornbury may plan for the immediate future, it certainly leaves options wide open. If you want to know more, ask Bill Oddy. If you'd like a copy of the application, I can email you one I scanned earlier.

The Town Council is objecting, and the more objections are received by WODC the better. It is quite possible that Cornbury's present intentions are quite benevolent, but that is NOT what the application suggests. It's a catch-all document which leave lots of doors wide open. If it is to be approved, it needs to be tightened up considerably, particularly in respect of hours and size and duration of events.

Note that events (music, film, plays, indoor sports - no boxing or wrestling!, dance) would have a 24-hour alcohol licence, with 'late night refreshments' till 5am, and can run from 10am to 2am, and for music events where the capacity is 'expected to exceed 5000' a 'main arena' shall be identified where the events must end by midnight. They want permission for 4 events a year with an attendance exceeding 5000: there is no maximum, though they say they expect 19,999 at any one time. Plus 10 events a year with a proposed capacity of less than 5000. An event cannot last more than 4 consecutive days.

Mama is owned by HMV. Lord Rotherwick is known to have been discussing festivals with the CEO of HMV who apparently lives locally, to find something more lucrative to replace 'The Cornbury Festival'.

I hope this makes some things clearer!

Thu 25 Nov 2010, 06:18

Richard, "he's a right James Blunt" now crops up in modern cockney rhyming slang. ;-)

Wed 24 Nov 2010, 23:37

I am really puzzled that the news item on Cornbury Park Licence Application has simply disappeared from the news page where it appeared earlier today. Was it simply wrong? Or is it simply a temporary disappearance?

My comment was based on that item, reading the e-festivals news (cross-referenced elsewhere in this forum), & then checking out the Glade forum, not on something that I read in the press.

It seems to me there is all the difference in the world between the annual Riverside Festival (which I fully support) & the tightly controlled old Cornbury Festival (which I also attend & very much enjoy), & the type of general events licence that Lord Rotherwick was said to have applied for.

The hours for the 14 possible events a year at Cornbury were listed as from 10.00 to 02.00 hrs 7 days of the week, plus late night refreshment from 23.00 to 05.00 hrs & supply of alcohol 24 hours a day. Although it said that only 4 out of the 14 events would involve more than 5000 people, & no event would involve more than 20,000 people, this is still on a quite different scale than anything we have previously enjoyed.

If the news report was wrong, then obviously I withdraw my comment. If it was right, then I'd like to know more about what the safeguards are against having some kind of event at Cornbury that is not suitable for that site.

Maybe the Glade festival is suitable for Cornbury & maybe it's not. But to simply wave through Cornbury as an appropriate venue for any of the big festivals that the Mama group might decide to hold could turn out to be a serious mistake. Personally, I think the speculation about the Glade festival -- even if it turns out to be just gossip -- is a useful wake-up call.

Wed 24 Nov 2010, 21:08

EFestivals actually withdrew their comment which appears to have been based more on guesswork than anything else. ("eFestivals had said Glade festival was a possible festival to move to Cornbury Park, however although organisers have had discussions with several possible investors, MAMA being one of them, at this stage no deal is done between Glade and MAMA or anyone else and Glade remains an independent festival at this point in time.")

But regardless, and at the risk of trying to sound younger than I actually am, I'd be a little wary of saying "we don't want none of them folks near us" based on what we might have read in newspapers. You could equally describe Riverside as a rock festival, yet I've not yet seen hordes of leather-clad bikers pillaging our streets. Personally I'd find a "family-friendly" festival featuring James Blunt and Westlife much more offensive, on the ears at least.

Wed 24 Nov 2010, 18:45

Those wondering about whether or not to object to the Cornbury Park Licence for hosting festivals and events may like to note that e-festivals has recently recorded that the Glade Festival is likely to be staged at Cornbury in 2011 -- see www.efestivals.co.uk/news/10/101007c.shtml.

The Glade Festival is a Rave Festival & certainly not the kind of 'family friendly festival' that Lord Rotherwick promised as a replacement for the old Cornbury Festival. On the other hand, Lord Rotherwick's application is for 14 events a year -- several very large indeed -- so Glade might fit in to one of the other slots.

The Glade Festival's past record with drugs, policing etc meant that it was cancelled in 2010 from its proposed venue near Winchester. The organisers have been looking for 'a new venue, something with lots of trees and natural beauty... and a more reasonable local police force'. See www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/news/a243657/glade-seeking-new-venue-for-2011.html

The Ravetalk Forum reports that Glade is definitely going ahead & that a preferred venue 'centrally located in England' has been identified; but 'we were asked to keep schtumm about it for now, as the licence isn’t in the bag yet for their first choice of venue'. See www.ravetalk.co.uk/glade-2011-dates-soon/#comments.

Let's hope this is all just a rumour, & that it's not Cornbury that has been identified as the likely venue! It seems to me to be a quite unsuitable festival to have so near to the town. But perhaps we need to think what there is in Lord Rotherwick's application that would prevent any such festival going ahead ...

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