Charlbury Railbus

Mon 4 Aug 2008, 23:18

The www.railbus.co.uk website seems to be working again this evening. The service is still running.

Mon 4 Aug 2008, 16:57

It's just gone down Market Street, 2 minutes early!

Mon 4 Aug 2008, 16:54

Thanks - I will keep an eye out tomorrow morning at the time it is supposed to come through the village to see if it is still running.

Mon 4 Aug 2008, 15:49

Yes it is running. Or it was last week. If in doubt, phone 01993 869100.

Mon 4 Aug 2008, 13:10

Is the service between Leafield and Charlbury still running? I was hoping to use it this Friday however the railbus website has shut down and I must admit I have not seen a railbus come through Leafield in the past couple of weeks.

Tue 1 Jul 2008, 10:18

I agree with Malcolm. When the Rail Bus was set up it was in response to local demand. For the first 3 years of the service there was a steering group representing local interests that met regularly to monitor and promote the service but this has not met since 2004.
Perhaps those who are moaning about the cost per passenger should consider the implications of a withdrawal of the service. Some passengers would find difficulty in getting to the station. There would be more cars used to get there and as the car park is often full, the overflow would park in the town centre adding to the commuters who already park there to avoid paying at the station. This would result in shoppers driving to other towns as they would be unable to park near the shops (I know we should walk there but there are those who cannot do so). Fewer shoppers eguals fewer shops and the death of the town centre. Is this what residents want?

Sun 29 Jun 2008, 02:18

Although fuel prices are being pushed up by speculation rather than peak oil at the moment (following subprime and all that debt created money govts have allowed the rich to print for themselves on computer schemes, traitors) the energy message is getting over and the costs beginning to bite in…

Long post - click to read full text

Fri 27 Jun 2008, 19:00

Just to report that ever since the chance of the subsidy being lost, the bus has been very full each time I have caught it - tonight there were 12 people on board - thank heavens they have changed the bus from the people carrier (which we used to have on Thursdays and Fridays) as many people used to get turned away.

Fri 13 Jun 2008, 21:35

Isn't it about time we stopped just saying the bus must be saved and started coming up with some ideas to help make it more successful?

We must all realise it isn't being well used for most of the time, so what can be done to make more people use the bus?

Fri 13 Jun 2008, 16:33

I am not sure that there are currently enough car parking spaces at Charlbury station for customers, this situation would surely only become worse if the railbus was not there.

Fri 13 Jun 2008, 09:53

I'd use Finstock station if I suitable trains stopped there. At the moment, I have to walk or cycle to Charlbury for the train, and I know I'm no alone in this.

(The railbus is no use to me however, as it doesn't go from Charlbury to Finstock after my train in the morning, and doesn't do Finstock back to Charlbury for my train in the evening)

Wed 11 Jun 2008, 18:29

Maybe the reason 'only one or two people' use Ascott/Finstock each day is BECAUSE the service is so poor. Isn't it about 10 years since their service was curtailed?
Perhaps four trains per day in each direction would give these residents a chance to try the train!

Wed 11 Jun 2008, 09:23

To say "it's obvious people don't have a need to travel" is palpably untrue - where does everyone in Ascott and Finstock work, the Swan and the Plough?

The point is right now they're travelling by car, and there are a million and one reasons why OCC should be encouraging them to do otherwise: high oil prices, the road safety issues that Igor mentions, congestion on the roads into Oxford, this small thing called global warming. The same applies in Charlbury.

The Railbus is an example of a project that seeks to do exactly that. Maybe its current configuration isn't the greatest success, so if there's a way of spending the same money to achieve these aims more effectively, let's hear it. But just saying "let's stop funding the Railbus, and not provide a replacement either for rural transport or Charlbury in general" is not an answer.

Wed 11 Jun 2008, 08:01

Maybe the reason they only have one train is that they don't justify having anymore. Only 1 or 2 people each day use it and that hasn't changed for the past ten years. A simple case of supply and demand. Getting back to the Railbus, the same thing applies on that too!

Wed 11 Jun 2008, 00:46

Ed - the stations at Finstock and Ascott only have one train going each eay per day! This could be the reason that no one is using them. Once the track is dualled, they could then be used more.

Tue 10 Jun 2008, 23:54

The stations at Ascott-Under-Wychwood and Finstock have a train and hardly anyone uses them either! If they aren't using the bus either then it's obvious people don't have a need to travel!

Tue 10 Jun 2008, 22:03

Perhaps if FGW were aware they have stations at Ascott-Under-Wychwood and Finstock the bus could serve another route!?

Tue 10 Jun 2008, 21:18

Susie- Good to hear that the station bus was full this evening, unlike the Stagecoach bus that left Charlbury totally empty yesterday afternoon, among many other ocassions.

Tue 10 Jun 2008, 20:34

Ray - I would be happy for the bus to run only at peak times for the commuter trains - however there are those still in Finstock and Leafield who would have no way of getting into Oxford and onto London if they couldnt or didnt drive. By the way, the bus was full this evening - and that's on a hot sunny day!

Tue 10 Jun 2008, 19:37

Just like to add to a point Susie Finch made where she said I dont live in Charlbury. True but my taxes go to pay towards this bus. The councils are strapped for cash and cuts have to be made and its only fair that the littlest used things must go. If your family income was cut, you would have to make savings and things your household valued and enjoyed would have to go to balance the books and its the same with councils. If the bus ran only at peak hours it may be viable. I must admit when i first posted a reply on this site i thought maybe it cost £18,000 a year to run but was shocked when i found out the true figure of £46,398. I am convinced that the majority of local residents were unaware of this staggering figure as those i have spoken to were as shocked as i was.

Mon 9 Jun 2008, 22:02

Ed - I don't think anyone would dispute that the County Council provides its core services ("trading standards, schools, adult education, countryside" etc.) in Charlbury just as it does in the rest of the county. (Though if the surface of Nine Acres Lane is anything to go by, I'm not sure "looking after the roads" is something to own up to!)

The issue is that a lot of County Council spending is not core spending; and despite contributing a lot of Council Tax (because of high property values), Charlbury receives comparatively little of this "discretionary" spending. The Railbus is the major exception.

If OCC can find something better in Charlbury to spend £47,000pa on, and perhaps reconfigure existing bus services so that they serve the station and villages, I'm all ears.

Mon 9 Jun 2008, 11:57

The suggestion of an extra two pounds a day to park is a crazy idea, it costs enough already; you might get more people using the bus, but such demand may not be able to be met(see Susie's posting) Why not increase the cost of the bus!

Mon 9 Jun 2008, 11:30

Susie - the bus is very underused and thus a waste of taxpayer's money. If a way of increasing all round use isn't found it should be scrapped.

Perhaps it could include Spelsbury, Dean, and Chad or be limited to commuter trains.

Mon 9 Jun 2008, 09:39

Could not parking charges at the station be increased and some of the income used to subsidise the bus? An extra two pounds a day to park would probably cover the whole subsidy. After all, it appears that demand currently outstrips supply for parking spaces. Whenever I have used the bus, admittedly at peak times, it has always been pretty full.

Sun 8 Jun 2008, 22:38

Ray - you don't even live in Charlbury! For people who cannot drive this bus is a god send. I for one would not be able to get down the station and back without the bus. There are many more like me - not just in Charlbury but Finstock and Leafield who rely on this bus to get them to work. I dont know which bus some of the commenters on this forum look at but I have even had to cadge a lift as the bus is too full. The buses which serve the commuter trains are always busy.

Sun 8 Jun 2008, 22:01

We seem to be drifting away from the matter in question which is whether the station bus is worth the enormous amount of taxpayers money being ploughed into keeping it going, not whether the car park is big enough. When i was running the website and the bus service had been running a while, one driver jokingly remarked that the engine would need changing long before the ticket roll. This service has been a lame duck from the start, and now is maybe the best time to put it to rest.

Sun 8 Jun 2008, 19:49

A few weeks ago, a friend of mine parked at the south end of the car park in an area on the line-side of the car park that now is not marked as bays, but where, as far as I can remember, there have always been parked cars. She received a parking ticket citing "obstruction" for her troubles. The powers that be were uninterested in hearing her side of the story.

Sun 8 Jun 2008, 17:49

Chris - Too true. I've checked the county council website and the car park has been increased in size by 40% and now has 154 spaces.

If only some of the drivers used the bus we wouldn't be fighting to keep thje bus going and they'd be more spaces for those who can only drive to the station.

Sun 8 Jun 2008, 00:15

As far as I can tell the car parking at the station is now completely inadequate. I tried to catch the 10:36 to London last week, and after driving round the car park with a number of other vehicles, I had to give up and drive to London - should stop any overcrowding.

Fri 6 Jun 2008, 23:33

I am afraid that the situation with regard to the Charlbury Railbus is even worse than Ray Marshall suggests. He has overlooked the fact that the bus does not run on Saturdays, Bank Holidays or the period between Christmas and New Year. On the basis of some 250 operating days per annum, the daily subsidy works out at around £185. I wonder what is the average number of passengers per day. If the £5.00 subsidy per passenger journey is correct, and it was confirmed at Thursday's meeting, then this would indicate something in the 35 to 40 region (or up to 10,000 per annum)

Fri 6 Jun 2008, 17:13

Ed, Thanks for informing me as to what the County Council do! Lets hope that they do more of it in Charlbury in the future,rather than less.

We seem to pay an enormous amount of Council tax, with by far the largest proportion going to the County Council.

You mentioned the improvements to the rail station car park, Am I right in thinking the number of parking spaces has been reduced? When I have been down to the station recently,the car park has been absolutely full.

Fri 6 Jun 2008, 08:59

Chris - I think you need to take a look at the OCC website and find out just how much they do:

trading standards, schools, adult education, countryside (rights of way, bridleways, footpathgs), waste recycling, fire & rescue, road safety, social services, home help, road maintenance, libraries, museums and public transport.

Now I'm sure you benefit from some of these! OCC rebuilt Dyers Hill after the flood last year, has improved the railway station, looks after the roads around the town and runs the local library.

Fri 6 Jun 2008, 08:51

Well done Ray. £150 per day is a staggering price for so few people but I guess that's the world we live in.

Like you I wish people had been using the bus since it started years ago but it has never been popular and I'm getting fed up with people campaigning to save it when they aren't exactly flocking to use it.

Something has to be done. Maybe it should have less journeys from the villages, meet less trains or go somewhere else. Is there a particular train that most bus users aim for?

Instead of whingeing why don't people get out and use the bus, or suggest how it can change to attract more users.

Thu 5 Jun 2008, 22:32

I have just received the cost of running the rail bus back from the OCC under the FOI act with ref. 0791FOI and as promised i am publishing the results here.
The cost to the council of running the bus is a staggering £46,398 per year which if taken on a daily basis allowing for 6 days a week as it doesn't run Sundays, costs the taxpayer £148.71 per day.
The question is can this expense be justified with the use it gets. This takes me back to my original posting which said that if people used it there would be no need for a campaign to save it.

Thu 5 Jun 2008, 18:28

If the County Council were to pull the funding on the Railbus, wouldn't that leave Charlbury council tax payers recieving virtually nothing from OCC?

Thu 5 Jun 2008, 12:22

At the Annual General Meeting of the Cotswold Line Promotion, its former Bus-Rail Liasion Officer reported that the Charlbury Railbus is currently subsidised to the amount of about £5.00 per passenger journey. This is, no doubt, why the OCC is seeking to get better value for money from its subsidised bus services.

Wed 4 Jun 2008, 22:54

disapointed David, I thought we were mates!!!!

Wed 4 Jun 2008, 22:23

Ray, I doubt the council will tell you how much the service costs to run now as it might influence the bids they get in future if a bus company knows what price it has to undercut.

Has anyone collected details of the number of people using the bus? As I said before it never seems to have anyone on it for most of the day. We can't fight to keep it going if it is not being used very much. It's no good for people to say thery want to keep it if they aren't using it regularly.

Wed 4 Jun 2008, 17:59

Ray - As you have not lived in Charlbury for a number of years now , I think your feel for what the people of Charlbury want, never mind the residents of Leafield, Finstock and Shipton-u-Wychwood, is less relevant. Am I not right in thinking that your views might also be slightly biased, as an employee/former employee of Stagecoach?

My understanding is that the County Council are sensibly reviewing all the local bus services every four years. This bus service was reviewed and considered a success four years ago and our then County Councillor Brian Hodgson did his best to protect this valued local bus service to the station and local villages.

There is still considerable support among Charlbury, Finstock, Leafield and Shipton residents for this bus service, as I am sure will be shown by the public over the coming weeks.

Wed 4 Jun 2008, 17:36

Thanx for the link Richard. Have requested details of the funding which i will publish when received. I am not having a dig at anyone but remember when the station bus was introduced, which i covered on the website, 100s of people campaigned for this bus, but can remember the disappointment from many when it ran mostly empty. Every town or village has its own needs with rural shops closing and pensioners relying on buses to get their groceries. Council funds are limited and must be used carefully. I agree people in Finstock, Leafield etc must have public transport but does it have to run all day and does it have to go to the station each time as more and more passengers are now using the 20A bus service.
Keep up the good work Richard.

Wed 4 Jun 2008, 16:08

I really do think its a shame that people have to have a slanging match about what is really a needed service. Does is matter whether you have been in Charlbury all your life or have just moved here - its a necessity for all. Please all grow up and stop having a go at Richard - who does a marvellous job on this website - otherwise you wouldnt be posting items on the forum.

Wed 4 Jun 2008, 15:08

If you ask OCC, they should give it to you - as FoI if nothing else. This page has details of how to make an FoI request.

Wed 4 Jun 2008, 14:56

What would be good to see here is exactly how much per day it costs to keep this bus subsidised. The figure must be available to the public somewhere. If anyone knows the true DAILY COST it would be handy to publish it. Just the figures for this bus service only please, not a party political broadcast on how much this council does or doesnt spend on transport.

Wed 4 Jun 2008, 14:01

good afternoon richard who is giro? i dont remember him from charlbury.perhaps he is an incomer like yourself.keep up the bad work and dont listen to john harrison he knows nothing. keep on cycling. hope to meet you soon.luv ken

Wed 4 Jun 2008, 13:13

Ah, I thought that one would flush Giro's current alias out of the woodwork...

Wed 4 Jun 2008, 12:50

i lived in charlbury for 380 years man and boy the same as ray marshall. we are entitled to air our views the same as anybody else.we know this web site is mr i own charlbury unfairhursts own personel baby. so on yer bike my deareo sit in the back ground where you belong. being a charlbrarian is a birth right you can not buy. living in charlbury for five minutes entitles you to nothing.

Wed 4 Jun 2008, 12:05

It's a pity this thread is called "Charlbury Railbus". It isn't just for Charlbury, it's for the people in Leafield who otherwise have no bus at all, and for people in Finstock, Ascott and Shipton who otherwise have no bus links to Charlbury station for the commuter trains.
A number of people will be very seriously affected if the service is withdrawn: of course it costs money, but rural services occasionally do. They have to. But overall the cost to the taxpayer of city life is far higher than the cost of country life.

Wed 4 Jun 2008, 10:18

Well, in my experience what is typical of a very small but vociferous part of Charlbury is moaning about how they've lived here for 380 years man and boy, and how it ain't what it used to be... then moving out and moaning about how all the "true Charlburians" have left. Oh yes, and then coming onto this forum and moaning about the moaning.

Meanwhile, we have more people using Charlbury's public transport than ever; more people shopping in Charlbury than ever; and, I suspect, as many people in Charlbury's pubs as ever. There's a lot to be proud of in Charlbury.

If taxpayers' money is your concern, that's very noble, but I'm pretty sure that OCC earns more in Charlbury council tax than it spends in the town. (Actually, the only non-workaday OCC spending I can remember is the speedbumps!)

Tue 3 Jun 2008, 21:33

Is this not typical of Charlbury and Charlbury people? No one wants to use local services but once they are under threat they go all out to try and save them. If the locals put as much effort into using local services (transport, shops, pubs etc) as they do trying to save them once threatened with closure, this sort of situation wouldn't happen. Taxpayers money cant be wasted on little used projects.

Wed 28 May 2008, 20:51

Suggest that residents also contact our County Councillor sue.haffenden@oxfordshire.gov.uk regarding the station bus, who should be defending our interests at the County Council.

Wed 28 May 2008, 10:46

Sorry, that should have read 9.28.

Wed 28 May 2008, 10:44

Ed F - I'll be posting a petition on the website this evening.

Wed 28 May 2008, 10:38

I catch the Railbus that gets to Charlbury at 8.28. It carries between 1 and 5 passengers, most going to the station, including a disabled passenger with a young child who travels to the surgery twice a week from Leafield and for whom this is the only way he can make the trip.

On earlier trips, I gather the bus is often full. On the odd occasion that I catch it at 17.55 from the station, I'm surprised how full it is, and there are always still people on it when I get off in Finstock. There was a complaint recently when a passenger was left behind on a later service because the bus was full.

I think the problem is that only very few journeys are economic, and even a "full" bus isn't carrying many people. But partly because Worth's have a lot of school contracts, they cannot run early morning services into Charlbury (their first bus into Charlbury arrives at 9.30!). There is a genuine gap in provision, especially from and to Leafield and Finstock before and after Worth's operate, that needs to be covered somehow. Not everyone can make their journeys to and from the station by bike!

Wed 28 May 2008, 10:28

Thanks, Susie and Jon, for drawing our attention to this. I wonder if it's worth drawing up a petition to save the railbus? I know that a lot of people would sign it - I certainly would.

Wed 28 May 2008, 08:57

Susie - I'd really like to know where are these people are going? The bus was a great idea but I hardly ever see anyone get off it at the station. If after eight years it cannot muster more than one or two infrequent users that is not a good use of our money, as it is council tax payers who pay for the bus.

In this age of high fuel costs and concern for the environment, I do wonder if running an empty bus is that sensible. Would it be better used if it went elsewhere?

Wed 28 May 2008, 00:18

Ed - you may not see that many people use the bus; however, the reality is that those that do rely on this bus in order to be able to get to work. Its not just me with my dodgy ankle and unable to drive. There are people regularly using the bus service from Finstock and Leafield who would have no other way of getting to work were it not for the Rail Bus. So I would urge you all to please write/email OCC supporting this bus. Maybe one day it could be one of you who needs to use the bus - car in for service etc etc.

Tue 27 May 2008, 21:31

Susie Finch has posted news about the Charlbury Railbus being under threat as the county council is reviewing the service. Whilst they may be have an objective to deliver accessibility in their Local Transport Plan, surely this does not come at any cost?

The reaility is that so few people seem to use the service and time must be running out for it now.

The bus has been running for the past eight years and I rarely see more than a couple of people on it. How many people use the service regularly and where do they go?