Proposed plans for residential development by cricket club

Fri 7 Nov 2014, 20:31

What I love about this thread is the number of people engage with thinking about the sort of future that we want for Charlbury. Charlbury Neighbourhood Forum (formerly the Community-led Plan Working Group) is going to launch a new website in a week or two. And the Forum is looking for new members who want to engage with developing a masterplan for Charlbury. If any of you would like to join, please contact me.

Fri 7 Nov 2014, 13:40

Just for balance - the background information (see link in Liz Leffman's post) says that "We have been working with Oxford Architects on a single storey design that will blend into the site as much as possible.The design will use local stone and flat, sedum roofs to minimise the visual impact. The site itself sits well below Forest Road and will be set into the slightly sloping site. The Planning Authority have asked us to create a design with clean lines which they felt was appropriate to this location."
I think I will keep an open mind and look at the planning application when it comes in.

Fri 7 Nov 2014, 12:10

Those residents who may be opposed to development in our town generally may be interested to look at the Rural Oxfordshire Action Rally website site.
www.roartoday.co.uk

Wed 5 Nov 2014, 18:11

"Cream houses as a backdrop. It is a scene any visitor would relish." This is the view of Charlbury from the fields across the Evenlode, as described in the The Guardian of August 9th 2000 (Environment section page 6).It would be a pity to lose it.

Mon 3 Nov 2014, 20:29

The site ,I believe , is in the wrong location, gaining access through the Cricket club, over an area that has issues of flooding.
Will this route need to be illuminated ? It would be good to see the plans and the application before making further comment. Is there any information available yet

Mon 3 Nov 2014, 11:45

Leah, as far as I am aware no planning application has gone in yet.

Mon 3 Nov 2014, 09:44

Leah have you tried the link on Liz's post 29 Oct. is quite informative . Pearl

Mon 3 Nov 2014, 09:41

Please could someone direct me to the planning application, I don't appear to have enough information

Mon 3 Nov 2014, 09:22 (last edited on Mon 3 Nov 2014, 09:23)

Absolutely Rod.

The charity's reference to West Oxfordshire's conservation area in its information is somewhat misleading too. This is a national charity and the home is described as an Oxfordshire project. The AONB covers less than 10% of Oxfordshire as a whole and is home to only around 3% of the county's population. The principle of conserving the AONB means seeking to locate development outside it, not the opposite.

The National Planning Policy Framework which the charity also refers to in its information only sanctions the use of rural exception sites for "local" affordable housing, as I thought when I posted below, and West Oxfordshire's affordable housing policy defines local as from within the parish. The charity's FAQ omits entirely to address the local criterion which of course it does not meet. This proposal just does not qualify for the use of a rural exception site in Charlbury before even considering all the other reasons which make this choice of site a poor one. It is disappointing that West Oxfordshire is even letting this progress through the pre-application phase and allowing time and the charity's money to be wasted.

Sun 2 Nov 2014, 21:02 (last edited on Sun 2 Nov 2014, 21:18)

If I can throw in another pennyworth, in no way do I question the value of the proposed facility to those it's intended to help and would welcome it warmly if in the right place. I'm acutely conscious of being a 'new kid in town' but (and you knew one…

Long post - click to read full text

Sun 2 Nov 2014, 13:34

There is no pavement on that side of the road, from station approach until after the river bridge

Sun 2 Nov 2014, 13:00

I agree with Pearl there has already been a fatal accident to a pedestrian there,the cars come very fast on the approach to Charlbury

Sun 2 Nov 2014, 12:29

Exactly, Jon. There are 'brown-field' sites in Charlbury. No-one (I hope) is objecting to the idea of a Young Dementia facility - it would add to the diversity of our town - just not in that particular exceptionally-sensitive location. One of the reasons I love Charlbury is that my heart lifts every time I drive or walk along the Burford Road. The Evenlode Valley must be one of the best views in England. One development on that side of the river will inevitably create a precedent, and there would be no going back. As Stuart says, we are a resourceful and imaginative community so we surely must be able find a win-win solution for everyone concerned.

Sun 2 Nov 2014, 10:20

Meanwhile the quarry lies empty and unused.

Sat 1 Nov 2014, 15:33

Worthy though the idea is, any such development would surely be a dangerous precedent for further building on the Forest Rd side of the river.

Thu 30 Oct 2014, 19:43

I attended the presentation of the Young Dementia UK presentation at the Corner House on 17 October and have read the debate which has followed in the forum but have to declare more than a passing interest in this proposal as several years ago, I was involved with The Clive Project, a local organisation giving support to the families of those with early onset dementia and from which Young Dementia developed.
At that time they were looking for a suitable location to build a small residential home for a similar number of residents in Oxfordshire. The big problem then, as now, is to find the right location as it has to be essentially quiet in nature and near to a reasonably-sized settlement with good transport connections as family and friends are a really important part of the care process. Brown field sites are not easy to come by in the Cotswolds and land in any case is highly restricted by the Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty boundaries, in which development is not actually precluded if it has an overall benefit.
There can only be a few families in this country who have not been touched by the hand of dementia but luckily only a smaller number who have had to cope with the long term problems of young dementia. Charlbury is an excellent location for this project as it meets all the requirements for a well-designed home which will give the residents a chance to manage a large slice of their own lives in a safe environment.
We are a balanced and resourceful community in Charlbury with all the assets that Glena lists but I feel that we should be able to be constructive enough to resolve any problems on this or any other site in or near to town and give the Young Dementia project the support and welcome it deserves.

Thu 30 Oct 2014, 16:10

That's how I read the planning incentives in this case, too, Mark. (Arguably not so different from the factors behind trying to build a solar farm as a socially worthwhile project further south on the same western edge of Charlbury, although I don't think the planning system treats that as creating a built-up area as such.)

Thu 30 Oct 2014, 15:40 (last edited on Sun 2 Nov 2014, 14:14)

I'm with Glena and Rod and others, and I think Rod states the case particularly well. This is an especially senstive site in an AONB, and it's not a suitable place for development of any kind, however worthy the cause. It seems to me perverse that the system is almost attracting development in such a location - because, if I've understood right, the land is worth less because a private developer would never get permission to build on it, but a socially worthwhile project just might ...

Wed 29 Oct 2014, 21:11

Like many people on this thread I think that the charity's aims are excellent but the site inappropriate----partly because of aesthetic reasons, partly because it would create a precedent and partly because it seems an unsuitable site for people with dementia anyway.
I agree with Richard about the need for at least some more affordable housing and also for much thought about what Charlbury needs and where it is going. However, I think I differ with him and Liz R. in that I don't necessarily think that the way to keep a community alive is by more development. The term 'dormitory town' always raises strong emotions but if it means a town where some people are retired and many people have to commute to work then that is what most communities of our size in the country are like. We are fortunate to have the train so that we do have a good mix of ages precisely because people are able to commute. I agree we need to keep as many shops as possible but shops are for people not people for shops----we do need more houses but not just to provide footfall for shops.
Personally I think what makes Charlbury (and any community) a warm, lively place that people actually want to live in is the contribution and commitment of the volunteers----the people who run the various societies and the big events like the Street Fair, the Beer festival and Riverside and the small events that we enjoy every week----the coffee mornings, sales, concerts meetings, plays and the evenings at the Shed----also the people who contribute to the running of the town and are prepared to sit on the town Council or any other of the committees. This effort is what makes the town enjoyable to live in not, to be honest, whether one more craft shop mamnages to survive.

Wed 29 Oct 2014, 14:38

Thank you Liz.

Wed 29 Oct 2014, 12:02 (last edited on Wed 29 Oct 2014, 12:17)

There is a useful document on this link which addresses some of the issues raised in this thread: www.youngdementiaukhomes.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/FAQS-planning-consultation-281014.pdf. And you can find out more about the organisation at this link: www.youngdementiaukhomes.org/our-home/where-are-we-with-our-plans/

Tue 28 Oct 2014, 19:53 (last edited on Tue 28 Oct 2014, 20:44)

That sounds extremely dangerous to me an access road at bottom of Dyers hill near the river, with cars rushing up and down to Station be accident waiting to happen, I actually can't believe that.

Tue 28 Oct 2014, 18:48

I'm with Rod on this. This isn't about local housing for local people. And even if it was this wouldn't be the right location on which to develop. There must be more appropriate and less invasive sites for this charity to locate to - and let's conserve the outstanding Evenlode valley
Anthony

Tue 28 Oct 2014, 18:40

Rod, Did you go to the exhibition in the Corner House? Having talked to the various representatives there about the issues you raise, I ended up reassured. The person from the Charity was really clear that they wanted a place on the edge of a small town or village & not near somewhere the size of Witney. It was said that there would be enough going on in the social space at the unit for it to be pretty self-contained. They wanted vehicular access primarily for for visiting family members, & perhaps also for a minibus for the residents. The residents would have one main meal cooked for them each day, but would cook the extra meal themselves, so it could potentially bring business into the town. And there would be staff on duty 24 hours a day.

The proposed access is quite low key (as is also the building), and the plan is to build up the access path so it's above the flooding level, with a non-slip surface for pedestrians. I was told the lights could be low-level and environmentally friendly. The access route was not on to the busy Burford Rd (as I originally supposed), but near the river on Dyers Hill. There was also the suggestion that there might be funding that could improve the pedestrian surfaces on Dyers Hill which would be great as it is desperately slippy in ice and snow.

I am sure that there are conditions that the Town Council would need to insist on, but I felt it had been very well thought out. And if it gave local people privileged access to a local dementia care community if they were unfortunate enough to suffer from dementia when between the ages of 45 and 65, that would also be a real benefit! It's the first such community planned in the UK, so I think we might expect that it would receive a lot of help and support.

Mon 27 Oct 2014, 22:21 (last edited on Mon 27 Oct 2014, 22:37)

I'm a newcomer to Charlbury and thus not entitled to have an opinion, let alone express one, for at least another 10 years! So instead, here's what the WODC draft Housing Land Assessment said in 2011 about the area where this development is proposed:

"The views of Charlbury from the…

Long post - click to read full text

Mon 27 Oct 2014, 21:03

Yes I agree with that as well, Pwarl, but it doesn't change the point I made that Exception Site rules can, and have been, altered to suit the circumstances after the dwellings have been built. I also accept that doing so is better than leaving the houses empty, but I think it shows the fragility of such rules in an expensive housing area like ours.

Sun 26 Oct 2014, 16:20 (last edited on Sun 26 Oct 2014, 18:01)

I think you will find that many of younger people who weren't fortunate enough to get a house have to pay extortionate rents for private properties in Charlbury, therefore they are unable to save for a home.

Sun 26 Oct 2014, 11:32

Yes I agree Malcolm, and this was raised during the planning stage for these Little Lees houses, but I was simply making the point that because a development is set up and built under the Exclusion Zone arrangements, circumstances may mean that the requirements for residence in the dwellings are later overlooked or reduced in order for them to be filled.

Sun 26 Oct 2014, 11:04

Andrew I think the main reason that many local people were not able to take up the so called "affordable" housing is simple, lack of money! Those people who set these schemes up don't seem to realise that the majority of people who might need one of these properties cannot raise even the small deposit required and on or just above the minimum wage, which seems to be norm around here, cannot pay a mortgage. Thats apart from having to jump through all the hoops with the finance, housing association etc just to get considered, quite daunting for some.
In any case I know the prices asked are lower than on the open market, but in comparison to other areas of the country you would not class them as affordable by any means in comparison relative earnings!

Sat 25 Oct 2014, 21:36

Judging by what happened in Little Lees with the "Exception site" here, it would appear that rules can be bent if necessary to make sure that the dwellings are filled.
The houses here that were available for part purchase were not all taken up by local Charlbury people, as far as I understand, so the accommodation was then offered to others in the WODC area.
I hasten to add that I have no problem with these houses now that they are here in Little Lees, but I make the point simply to comment on the use of "Exception sites" and whether or not they always end up as originally proposed, ie, for Charlbury people.

Sat 25 Oct 2014, 10:30

Thanks Liz. I also went to the open meeting at the Corner House but didn't manage to speak with the applicant's planning consultant. If he told you that the proposal is to seek consent as a 'Rural Exception Site', I wonder why he thinks that this proposal would qualify. As far as I know this approval route is only available to provide affordable housing to meet local housing needs, essentially those within the same parish. This proposal is not affordable housing (in planning terms) nor is the accommodation being provided for town residents. Since the planning consultant is WODC's former head of planning, I imagine he probably knows the rural exception policy better than anybody. Is my understanding wrong? Does anyone have any further information?

Sat 18 Oct 2014, 10:28

I went to the exhibition. The development has been designed to be as unobtrusive as possible. The planning consultant explained that the charity - with limited means obviously - needs a site like this which can only be developed as a "rural exception" site. In other words, a conventional developer could not get permission to build there. If it were a site that conventional developers would use, the cost of the land would immediately rise out of the reach of the charity.
I also want wholeheartedly to support Richard's comments. Please look out for the Charlbury Neighbourhood Forum which is starting to work on three key themes for Charlbury - an inclusive town, safe and green movement, and places and spaces. As we develop a neighbourhood plan, we can all work together on proposals to deliver a vibrant future for the community.

Thu 16 Oct 2014, 09:22

If the development goes ahead, could some kind of traffic calming be incorporated? There is also a busy nursery down there and people speed along the road towards the train station at terrifying speeds every day. As a parent of 2 children at the nursery, I'd be keen to see this addressed and this might be a good opportunity.

Thu 16 Oct 2014, 06:38

I agree that it is the location that worries me, rather than the proposed use. I will look at the plans, but on the face of it I will take some convincing that any development for housing should be permitted there.

Wed 15 Oct 2014, 19:42

The issue that I see is that this is such a prominent, visible site when there must be other sites in the county that would be far less obtrusive. The edge of the town is naturally and historically at the river but this development represents a sprawling out beyond the natural town boundary. My worry, which others may share, is that this will be the thin end of the wedge in terms of Cornbury Estate developments out along the road to Burford. I'm not sure this is what many want in an area of outstanding natural beauty?

Wed 15 Oct 2014, 19:25

A very worthwhile cause and a challenging site, Looks like it's worth seeing what's actually proposed on Friday, I'll reserve judgement until then.

Wed 15 Oct 2014, 18:10 (last edited on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 18:11)

Liz, I gathered that Young Dementia was looking for a site on the edge of a village or a town that would enable its residents to live as normal and independent a life as possible. Residents would certainly not be locked in or supervised all the time. My concern about the road is simply that it may place constraints on the residents which might hinder them in pursuing their hobbies and interests.

Wed 15 Oct 2014, 17:56

I imagine that the people who are proposing this have got some idea of how to help people with dementia NOT to get lost or wander onto the railway line!!

Wed 15 Oct 2014, 17:54 (last edited on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 17:54)

As I understood the Local Development Framework for planning which was recently circulated for comments by WODC, Charlbury won't be able to altogether opt out of having new housing. In fact, we are extremely lucky that only a modest increase for housing in Charlbury is currently envisaged within the LDF. Retaining the status quo did not seem to be an option.

Unless there are some very serious objections to the Young Dementia proposal which emerge, this would seem to me to be a good way of meeting the housing numbers that we will be required to meet one way or another. However, I think the main objection to the proposal might be the danger of the dementia residents wandering onto the road between Burford and Charlbury Station, given that cars often drive too fast to the station & there is also no good pavement or lighting. The railway line could also prove a hazard.

Wed 15 Oct 2014, 17:53 (last edited on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 17:57)

The plans are for accommodation for 12 people, with eight single rooms and two double rooms so quite small scale. The design is for a single storey building with a grass roof, so it would blend into the landscape. The site is just behind the cricket club pavilion. It is on a field that did not flood in 2007 so is unlikely to flood in future especially as work has been done upstream to prevent the catastrophic flooding we had that year.

Wed 15 Oct 2014, 17:39

What and spoil the most magnificent view down the hill? : ( how sad that we think it's ok to use up all of the green space in our county.

Wed 15 Oct 2014, 11:20

On the wider issue of housing development, Charlbury has really had very little in recent years. The only significant development per se has been the new Soha development on Little Lees (just 15 'homes', including several flats). Otherwise, it's generally been infill/rebuild to create expensive houses in the town centre - losing much of the charm of the back alleys that Charlbury once had - and we're increasingly seeing shops and offices converted into far-from-cheap housing (Britannic Engineering, the Old Fire Station, News & Things, and the Spendlove are four recent planning applications).

On the one hand, smallness is a virtue in itself and makes Charlbury what it is. On the other, younger people find it difficult to afford a house in Charlbury; shops struggle to attract footfall and close; and there is no money available to improve the town in general because, these days, such funding invariably comes from development (Section 106/Community Infrastructure Levy).

So the question of whether Charlbury would benefit from a modest increase in housing ("another Ticknell"?) is something the town needs to talk about, even if it decides "no, we're plenty fine as we are". Personally I haven't made up my mind one way or the other, but I do suspect that the infill has gone far enough; and I worry that Charlbury continues to head further towards being a dormitory town and no-one is doing much about it.

Wed 15 Oct 2014, 11:04

For those who are interested in this proposal the draft plans will be available to view in the Corner House ( Morris Room) on Friday 17th October from 3p.m. until 8p.m. You will also be able to speak to the team present from Young Dementia and make comments to them directly. As I understand it, this is a draft proposal at present, so now is the time to express a view.

Tue 14 Oct 2014, 21:36

There's enough housing going up as it is, the sceptic in me would think that the village for people with dementia would just be a way of allowing further building to take place in the future, bringing on more social housing. I personally wouldn't be happy to see this.

Tue 14 Oct 2014, 21:17

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Flooded_Charlbury_cricket_club.jpg
Interesting :-\

Tue 14 Oct 2014, 19:14

Just to clarify that this is not an initiative of the cricket club - it is 'by the cricket club' in so far as it is directly behind the cricket club as you look from the road down to the station.

Tue 14 Oct 2014, 14:51

That is a very nice idea but hopefully they are aware it is prone to flooding.

Tue 14 Oct 2014, 10:14

Purely for information's sake, the development is a project by the charity Young Dementia UK (based in Witney - see http://www.youngdementiauk.org). More information on their plans is at www.youngdementiaukhomes.org

Mon 13 Oct 2014, 20:06

It appears that there are initial plans being put together for substantial residential developments on the field directly behind the cricket club. I'm interested to know people's thoughts on this green field development which is in such a prominent position in the countryside, just on the approach to Charlbury and whether this or further developments up the hill along the Burford Road are desirable. The plans are for a residential village for young people with dementia, which is of course a worthwhile cause, but wondering about opinions about the site choice.
James