Charlbury - cycle-hostile?

Mon 27 Mar 2006, 18:16

I think, on reflection, everyone's had their say here, and positions are sufficiently entrenched that it would be best to lock this thread. For anyone with anything new to say about cycling in Charlbury, do, as ever, feel free to start a new thread.

Mon 27 Mar 2006, 10:11

That sounds rather like an admission of defeat on Igor's part! Am I justified in claiming victory for the "sensible" faction of Charlbury cyclists over the militant tendency typified by Igor?

Sun 26 Mar 2006, 15:40

At Igor's request, I've removed all his postings from this thread.

Sun 26 Mar 2006, 06:34

Before the flack arrive, yes I did use to ride a bike around Charlbury and between Towns.

Sun 26 Mar 2006, 06:30

I think if you can ride a bike you should a;so be able to walk,you can then go anyway you wish on the pavements.
Where will these nippy bikers go when meeting a large vehicle coming the other way, on the pavement!
A cycle route betwwn village & towns would be ideal and perhaps a mandtory insurans scheme as run in some countrys for the time cyclist try to get through narrow roads and scratch sides of vehicles or even pedestrians.

Sat 25 Mar 2006, 23:16

However, whilst there is the usual English foaming about one way streets, no one has addressed the point I made earlier: in other countries it is common, indeed accepted as utter common sense, to have cyclists go the other way up roads which aren't obviously too dangerous to do that in. Why not here? All it needs is a legal enactment and local stipulation.

I am not aware of anywhere in Charlbury where a "fietsers excepted" (its been too long since I was in Holland to remember the word for excepted or whatever the word is) wouldn't make perfect sense and would transform the practicability of cycling for nipping around town.

Sat 25 Mar 2006, 11:18

Igor - Thank you for your apology, which I am happy to accept, and for having the good grace to admit you were wrong with regard to cycling in Sheep Street. "Tone of voice" can be difficult to convey on a forum such as this so if I misunderstood your…

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Sat 25 Mar 2006, 09:12

Igor
Where do you think these cycle tracks are to be,the roads in Charlbury are only just wide enough for cars and buses to get through.

Anyway pleases you had the courtesy to appologise to Derick, it did not seem very humourous to me,also the one way system has been in effect for a good number of years.

Fri 24 Mar 2006, 17:16

Wow! Igor was the one who was cycling the wrong way up a one way street?? The same Igor who nearly injured my children by cycling up Browns lane the wrong way?? On the pavement no less??
The stretch of 2 way street you are refering to, after the Farmers Igor is called HIXET WOOD. Sheep St runs from the Bull to St Tereasa church and it is most definitely one way.

And how can you call Derek anti cycling when it is him who is a time trial cyclist with a professional clip pedal bicycle?? He's not the ammeauter running down pedestrians!
I am not anti cycling, and I'd be very pleased to see Charlbury Primary children cycle to school so their mothers didn't make the Slade a dangerous place and then whine and moan for traffic calming which will probably come in the form of car damaging humps!
And before I'm lumped in with the cretins, I do not drive a car. My husband does, but I am a pedestrian and public transport user who has no axe to grind against anyone, except those who do not obey the rules of the road or pavement.
Kate

Thu 23 Mar 2006, 10:52

Igor: before you slag me off you really ought to get your facts straight!

Firstly, I do know the difference between Sheep Street and Market Street and it is the former that I was referring to in my previous post. Secondly, Sheep Street is one-way between The Bull and Fisher's Lane in that direction. Wanting to be sure of my facts (you should try it sometime Igor!) I have checked this today: as you approach Sheep Street from Hixet Wood there are "No Entry" signs at the side of the road and one is instructed to "Turn Right" (i.e. into Fisher's Lane) by means of painted text on the road. Just to reiterate then, the cyclist I saw last week cycled along Sheep Street in a north-westerly direction (i.e. from The Three Horseshoes towards The Bull) before turning LEFT onto the pavement and proceeding down Church Street.

It is interesting Igor that as you don't agree with my views you choose to label (or should it be "libel"?) me as both a drunkard and a cyclist-hater. I should like to point out that in my previous post I said that I was "outside the Rose and Crown". I had not in fact been inside said establishment but was walking from the chemist to the butcher at the time, and the route I chose naturally took me past the pub in question. As for being anti-cyclist, if you had bothered to read my previous posts on this topic you would see that I am actually passionately pro-cycling. However, although pro-cycling, I am certainly very critical of bad, inconsiderate, law-breaking cyclists, for reasons I have elaborated before on this forum and do not propose to reiterate now.

Finally, if it was you that I witnessed cycling the wrong way along Sheep Street last week Igor why don't you just have the guts to own up instead of hiding behind a smokescreen of bluster, false accusations and rank paranoia ("Nobody likes us cyclists")?

Wed 22 Mar 2006, 23:53

Can we please go a bit easier on calling each other 'cretins', 'bimbos' and the like? Thanks.

Wed 22 Mar 2006, 22:50

Perhaps Cretins Corner can also have the names of cyclist who totally disregard the Highway Code, yes there is a section in it for cyclist,I know of several incidents where pedestrians have been injured by the thoughtless speeding cyclist on pavements, so if names are to be taken let it be for both parties and stop trying to make out cyclist are law abidding. Come on be fair about this war on the motorist who by the way do pay for the upkeep of the roads that cyclist use.

Wed 22 Mar 2006, 21:38

Holland, Denmark etc. are full of one way streets EXCEPT for bicycles which can use them by going the other way. Works a treat! And makes cycling a really useful and practical transport option (Apart from obviously unsafe roads where this would not be a good idea due to volume and speed of traffic going down them). Almost all ordinary urban roads made one way are excepted for "fietsers".

Why do the English get all so aireated about cycles going up one way streets - literally foam at the mouth??

Seems an obvious solution. Lets split up the issue of cycles using the road network, and footpaths where appropriate, in a way that makes transport sense, from stupid and inconsiderate riders who blast past people with no warning and with little margin for error.

And as for blasting down roads with little consideration, cars are the utterly overwhelming majority who show this behaviour, and they kill people. I should have taken the number of the blonde bimbo blasting down Brown's Lane in a HUGE blue chelsea commando tractor at about 5.15 this evening at well over 30 miles an hour, straight past the Co-op car park entrance which with its usual cars parked on corner would have made it almost impossible to miss anyone nosing out even ever so carefully to see their way...

And theres an idea - Cretins' Corner, where we can all post up the numbers of cars seen driving antisocially around town...

Wed 22 Mar 2006, 19:49

Have to agree with Kate and Derek.
Market Street is one way from The Bull going out towards Spelsbury, Browns Lane is one way towards The Bull and Sheep Street is most definately one way heading AWAY from The Bull towards The Three Horseshoes!

Wed 22 Mar 2006, 12:52

Right Igor.........if you think Sheep St isn't one way then you carry on thinking that...
If on the other hand you joined the rest of us on planet sensible, you would be breaking the law by cycling up Sheep St from the Farmers towards the Bull and you'd turn LEFT to the butchers. Oh but look, Dereks already pointed that out!!!!!!!
Kate

Tue 14 Mar 2006, 23:00

Based on an incident I witnessed this afternoon, there is a way to make Charlbury less cycle-hostile: simply disregard all the traffic regulations and laws of the land! As I stood outside the Rose and Crown, I saw a chap cycling towards me down Sheep Street (i.e. going the wrong way down a one-way street). He then turned left and proceeded to cycle blithely down Church Street on the pavement before stopping at the butchers. Needless to say he was a (seemingly) mature adult. It's frightening to think that as a law-abiding cyclist I am probably lumped together in many people's minds with cretins such as this character. I wonder what his life expectancy will be if he persists with cycling in such a reckless manner.

Fri 3 Feb 2006, 10:51

Points taken Richard. I wasn't meaning to be vehemently anti-mountain bike: it's just that I rode one on the roads of Oxfordshire for a year and found it damned hard work! A road bike is much easier; after all, why try to push 30+ lbs of metal up a hill when you can get away with 22 lbs? I've taken part in a number of charity cycle rides in this area and it is enlightening how many novice cyclists one sees struggling to propel their heavy, lumbering mountain bikes round the course. I'm sure they would be far more comfortable and make much swifter progress on road bikes!

The point I was trying (and failing) to make was that if you have £xxx to spend on a bike and you intend to cycle primarily on the roads then a road bike is probably a better buy than a mountain bike. Of course, if a mountain bike is all you have then that is much better than nothing and obviously it would be more appropriate for riding on off-road terrain, such as your proposed route to Stonesfield.

With regard to the cost of bikes, I should just point out that many people who think that a £300 bike is expensive would not bat an eyelid at the thought of spending 30-40 times as much on a new car! Still, I admit that I am a road bike convert and zealot so I'd better shut up on that topic now!

I will email you the cycling routes in a few days time when I get a chance to type them up.

Thu 2 Feb 2006, 17:50

I'm sure you're right, Derek, from the perspective of someone who owns a "lightweight road bike". Equally, as someone who cycled Lon Las Cymru last year (on a hybrid), I don't find the hill on the Burford road too frightening.

But as you said in an earlier posting, we shouldn't be putting impediments in the way of people who might want to go cycling. Having to buy £300 worth of new bike counts as an impediment in my book! Same goes for the blind bends on the Woodstock road: that's a pretty serious impediment for the nervous cyclist. Putting a cycle path along the Oxfordshire Way via Stonesfield would neatly solve this.

Re: postings about the churchyard - I think that Church of England statutes actually forbid this (it came up the other year, when I was on the PCC).

As for the details of local rides, yes please - can I put them on the website?

Wed 1 Feb 2006, 21:40

To get back to the earlier posts on this subject, I think previous correspondents have been a bit negative on the subject of cycling in Charlbury. My experience is quite the opposite.

Having moved here 15 months ago from Headington, I find cycling in the Charlbury area to be an…

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Sat 28 Jan 2006, 22:16

Kate: As a non-churchgoer it had never even crossed my mind that cycling through a churchyard (slowly and carefully) could be construed as sacrilegious. Presumably it is OK for people to walk, jog or run through it? However, I don't wish to cause offence and clearly if many people feel…

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Fri 27 Jan 2006, 19:34

Ah Derek! I hadn't thought of real cycle shoes!! Sorry! Ok, I can see your point there then about walking and pushing. But I would go to great lengths to stop a cycle path through the church yard. It's a respect issue. It's God's little acre and it's a final resting place. I make my children get off their bikes or scooters,and explain to them why it is. It never occured to me that cycling was banned becuase of it being dangerous to pedestrians or that it may create a problem at the gates, I always thought it was about it being holy ground.

Richard, I'd agree in principle to making Market St access only if it allowed for dropping heavy parcels at the PO, but they'd have to get rid of the speed humps in 9 Acres lane first wouldn't they?!! And we all know how proud the highways agency are of their record of ripping exhaust pipes off!! Browns lane I'd keep as a road for the sake of having busses come right to the centre of town, another thing, as a non driver I'll defend to the end.
I think, on your example Richard, I'd walk to the Co-op if I live in Pound hill, or push the bike up there sans shopping knowing I could load it on to the bike and cycle home.... Or am I just being a hardened pedestrian?? lol!

Kate x

Fri 27 Jan 2006, 10:54

I like the idea of a cycle path through the church yard, although as some cyclists (not me, I hasten to add!) don't stop at red traffic lights, I can't help but think they are unlikely to stop for a wedding or funeral!

Wed 25 Jan 2006, 19:15

I totally agree with Richard. We should be encouraging more people to get off their sofas and on their bikes and putting impediments in their way will only make them less likely to do so. Remember - we are dealing here with people with low will-power in most cases!

I am a time-trial cyclist based in Charlbury. Both of my bikes are fitted with clipless pedals and are only compatible with cycle shoes fitted with cleats (plastic plates that slot into the pedals). These shoes are not designed for walking in; doing so for more than a few yards is very uncomfortable and one is likely to slip and fall if conditions are wet. I have tried walking through the churchyard in my cycle shoes Kate and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone!

Having looked at the churchyard today it occurs to me that the path through it is quite broad. Would it not be possible to paint a two foot-wide strip of it green and call it a cycle path? There would still be plenty of room for pedestrians and this would solve the problem of not being able to cycle down Market Street from Dyers Hill. I for one would use such a cycle path several times a week and I'm sure that many cyclists who commute by rail would do likewise. The only problem I can foresee logistically is that there might be a bottleneck at the gates at either end of the churchyard but at least the sightlines are good so that cyclists and pedestrians would be able to see each other approaching in good time and react accordingly. Now all we need is someone to actually do it...

Wed 25 Jan 2006, 17:27

Sure, you can get off and push... and I do. But it all goes to making cycling a less appealing option. If (say) you're on Pound Hill and you want to nip to the Co-op, the one-way system makes driving a whole load quicker, and easier, than cycling. So you'll drive. As I said, we should be making cycling easier than driving, not harder.

(For what it's worth, I'd personally love to see Market Street, Browns Lane etc. paved over and made 'access only' for cars - even though it'd mean more traffic past my own front door. But I realise that might be a bit too radical. ;) )

Wed 25 Jan 2006, 09:44

But the one way pieces are so short, why not push your bike? Browns lane, market St etc... it's not like you'd have to push it up the Slade. If I were a cyclist, I'd simply use the pedestrian route and when it came to one way stretches then I'd dismount and walk.
The roads in the one way stretches are too narrow to implement a cycle path like large towns and cities have, the reason they are one way is that there is barely room for one car to pass down safely, wing mirrors intact..
Surely the great thing about bikes is that you can hop on and off it at will, to cross roads, push up one way sections etc?
Kate

Tue 24 Jan 2006, 22:36

There are two distinct arguments here - routes within Charlbury, and routes to the surrounding towns/villages. I think you're just talking about the former, so I'll answer that one.

Whether or not car drivers in central Charlbury "respect" my bike - or vice versa, when I'm driving - isn't really something that keeps me awake at night. The point is that Charlbury has a great one-way system perfectly designed for the efficient passage of cars; and a fine network of footpaths when we're on foot.

Cyclists are the poor relation. We have to pedal up a hill, then back down it, just to get a few hundred yards from where we started. I'm young(-ish) and fit(-ish) and don't find this a problem: others aren't so lucky. If we want people to cycle rather than drive short distances - and I don't think I need to explain why - we shouldn't place obstacles like this in their way.

Of course, it depends entirely how idealistic you want to be. If you're happy with the fact that half of Charlbury drives to the Co-op, then keep it as it is.

Tue 24 Jan 2006, 20:07

Who do cyclists want to be equal to?? Pedestrians or cars??
Richard said

"Routes within the town are pretty poor: cycling from the station to the centre of town either requires pushing through the churchyard, or a long detour around Nine Acres. The one-way system conspires against a couple of other routes (e.g. Pound Hill to the centre of town), too. The speed bumps on Dyer's Hill are pretty unpleasant on a bike... I could go on."

Now, the one way system is something all wheeled transport has to negotiate, so if you want car drivers to respect you as users of the road, then you have to do as they do and cycle the long way round.
And you can go round the speedhumps on a bike alot easier than you can in a car......
The whine here seems to be 'cars don't take me seriously, but I want the shorter route that pedestrians get'

If you want to use the church yard or go up browns lane or market st the wrong way then get off and push! It won't kill you and is still enviro friendly.

Though a constant poster of this site (and no, not Richard) cycling at top speed up the PAVEMENT of Browns Lane in the wrong direction a few weeks ago DID nearly cause my 5 yr old son and 7 yr old daughter to be hurt, we the pedestrians had to jump into the road to avoid being run over.. thanks for your consideration there ....

Kate

Sun 22 Jan 2006, 20:54

I've gone past you a couple of times, Igor. It would sure help if you wore something bright - fluorescent yellow or chrome (arctic) orange for example! There is conceding to the motor car and some basic precautions, and the two don't necessarily contradict...

Back to topic - the area Sustrans officer is actually based in Oxford, and a safe linked way into the Cotswolds strikes me as an obvious objective for the cycle paths network. The route Oxford-Woodstock-Stonesfield-Charlbury strikes me as a well graded route for inclines, and it doesn't take that much to make a pathway reasonably cycle worthy in all weathers, without necessarily making it into a billiard table (some of the Sustrans routes we've been on in the West Country have been almost over the top in terms of surface dressing quality, and one wonders if the money might have been better spent extending a basic utilitarian network rather than velveting those they have in existence?

Tho' the horsey sorority pride'n'joys' hooves do rather mess up surfaces, something would have to be done about that, as much of the prospective route I can see on the Ordnance map is bridleway.

Fri 20 Jan 2006, 10:49

From memory there was an attempt in around 2001 to set up some kind of cycle route. This was mainly to provide safe(r) access to and from the Station, but would have included some odd notions like being able to cycle up Browns Lane (well enough do it anyway!) and through the churchyard if I remember correctly. Put bluntly, the proposal didn't get a great reception.

The view then was that if a saner proposal came up, it would be well worth looking at. Think that still stands today.

Fri 13 Jan 2006, 20:16

The problem with cycling in and around Charlbury is that there are hills everywhere - head out to Enstone, Spelsbury, Finstock or Burford and you have to pedal up a big hill - and as someone who remembers the pre-one way system I have to say that it has to be cycle hostile

Now living in a less cycle hostile area of France where the Tour de France passed north of us in 2004 and south of us in 2005 - both within viewable reach

Thu 15 Dec 2005, 10:03

I think there are cross country cycle routes.
It is a big problem on the raods. they really are very dangerous round here.
At least we have a cycle proficiency class at the school.

Wed 14 Dec 2005, 23:08

For such an environmentally aware place, Charlbury's far from cycle-friendly.

Routes within the town are pretty poor: cycling from the station to the centre of town either requires pushing through the churchyard, or a long detour around Nine Acres. The one-way system conspires against a couple of other routes (e.g. Pound Hill to the centre of town), too. The speed bumps on Dyer's Hill are pretty unpleasant on a bike... I could go on.

But equally important is the lack of decent cycle routes to and from Charlbury. I wouldn't recommend any of the main B roads for 'amateur' cyclists - cars holler round the bends at such speed.

The National Cycle Network is doing great things improving cycle provision around Britain, but we're not on any of the existing or projected routes (unlike, say, Woodstock). Oxfordshire County Council's website has a prominent page giving "Information for cyclists in Oxfordshire", but every single link is for cycling in Oxford city.

Does anyone else get as steamed up about this as me... or am I ranting in the dark? Should I be lobbying our county councillor?

A regional cycle route from (say) Woodstock to Chippy via Stonesfield, Charlbury and Chad would be wonderful... we can but dream.