Trains 'back to normal'?

Mon 7 Sep 2009, 14:12

As I understand it, the last train in both directions is bustitutyed Monday - Thursday every week until mid-December.

ON some weeks, the penultimate train as listed in William's post below is also bustituted - and that needs to be checked on a week-by-week basis.

But it'll be worth it in the end!

Sat 5 Sep 2009, 00:38

Just a word of warning for anyone in the habit of travelling back later in the evening from London or Oxford that, due to overnight redoubling work for the next two weeks from Monday to Thursday, the 20.20 from London (21.17 from Oxford) and the 21.48 (Oxford 22.52) will both be replaced by buses beyond Oxford. So the last train is the 1922 from London (Oxford 20.22). In the other direction, the 19.27 from Worcester will be the last train, with buses after that.

The following week, the 21.48 will be replaced by a bus beyond Oxford Monday-Thursday. Buses also replace the 22.43 train from Worcester.

The late trains will run on the Friday night every week.

As the published timetable up until December says these late trains are liable to bustitution Monday-Thursday at any point, it's probably best to check from week to week in case your journey might be affected.

Wed 2 Sep 2009, 15:06

The Oxford Mail carries the report here with a link to the Network Rail website for more detail.

Wed 2 Sep 2009, 09:29

I'm waiting for my copy to arrive, but press reports of the Draft Network Rail Great WEstern Rail Utilisation Strategy (RUS) just published seem to indicate that plans are afoot to complete the remaining track doubling along the line.

It is reported to include track doubling on the Cotswold Line, and as the work being done at the moment falls outside the time zone (i.e. complete before this RUS comes into force), I'm assuming it relates to the rest of the single track not being doubled at this time.

Only time will tell, once my copy arrives.

Mon 31 Aug 2009, 18:40

Apparently Network Rail completed all the planned track and signal work for this summer on the Cotswold Line yesterday, a day early, and a test train ran this morning from Oxford to Worcester and back to test the signalling system without encountering any problems, so looks good for tomorrow morning.

Sun 23 Aug 2009, 10:24

The trains were certainly "back to normal" yesterday. The 16.20 Oxford to M-in-M arrived at Oxford on time, sat in the station for 5-10 mins and was then cancelled. The reason? "Unavailability of a member of train crew to take the train forward". When queried about this, the train dispatch guy on the platform said "There are no managers here at present", adding pointedly "As usual". We all had to wait an hour on the station for the next service. So, an hour of our lives stolen from us by FGW, just because it was a nice sunny afternoon and most of their staff were on the beach. What a shower! Hope they all got sunburn...

Thu 20 Aug 2009, 22:32

The 15.05 does indeed form a peak working out of London but it is also the return working of the morning train from London to Hereford, which, not unreasonably for a three-hour plus journey, is an HST.
The fundamental problem with the 10.08 is that its outward working to Malvern leaves London at 05.42 and, until it gets to Evesham just before 8am, it's very lightly loaded indeed - you would probably fit all those on aboard into one coach with many seats to spare.
The Adelantes were a far better train for off-peak Cotswold trains than Turbos (though they were something of a revelation in themselves in the early 90s and secured many extra through London trains throughout the day) but Adelantes were incredibly unreliable and still are - managing to destroy Hull Trains' reputation for a high-quality, punctual service within a matter of months this year and costing the managing director his job.
I'm not saying for one moment that I agree with the use of a Turbo on the 10.08 but unfortunately, unless commuter numbers into Worcester skyrocket, the situation is unlikely to change any time soon.

Wed 19 Aug 2009, 09:14

Derek - I can but ask the question, but I suspect that train forms a peak return out of London & thus needs to be an HST, rather than a 6car turbo....

Counts will be necessary come September (and the end of works / school holidays) as I am informed that the turbos are a permanent change. We need to be informed if we are to campaign successfully to get HSTs back on the off-peak hours.

Tue 18 Aug 2009, 10:42

I was referring to the previous timetable John, not the current (summer) one. I am sure you are right about the six-car Turbos. It does though seem incredible, in my naive little way, that we have a rail company operating the Cotswold Line service whose rolling stock would appear to be almost totally incompatible with a) the passenger loadings and b) the platforms at the stations on the route. It would seem to me that what we desperately need is some sort of five-car unit which is capable of rapid acceleration between stations. I wonder if anything of that ilk is available?

Another absurdity I have noticed concerns the 15.05 from Charlbury to London, which I use quite regularly. This train is always operated by an HST but, between Charlbury and Oxford at least, it is almost completely empty and I regularly have one (or sometimes two) coaches entirely to myself. Perhaps this HST could operate the 10.08 and a three-car Turbo (extended to six cars at Oxford if required) could operate the 15.05?

Thu 13 Aug 2009, 23:27

Sorry, Derek, but is not as simple as you suggest. 6 car Turbos cannot call at any station between Worcester Shrub Hill and Oxford, because they do not have selective door opening and all the platforms are not long enough. If a 6-car train was available at Worcester, it would have to travel as far as Oxford with the rear 3 coaches locked out of use.
If I recall correctly, this unfortunate change in rolling stock came into effect on 9th February. The current timetable (from 17th May) does not show it as being operated by High Speed stock. In its Spring 2009 Newsletter, the Cotswold Line Promotion Group reported the downgrading of the service as follows "The reason for the change was said to be high cost of operation, imminent transfer of Adelante sets from FGW, and low loadings. We pointed out that the 08.52 loads heavily at times, as the first off peak train, particularly in school holidays, but it was said that an extra set is added at Oxford. It appears that this is not always the case. We also stressed the much lower quality of environment, both for First and Standard passengers, and the lack of seat reservations. We pressed for a commitment to ensure the provision of 3 car Class 166 sets, with two toilets working and kept cleaned throughout the day, and for HST standards of complimentary services for First Class. We also pointed out that there had still, (by 2nd March) been no consultation or notice of this change".

Thu 13 Aug 2009, 13:34

Regarding the 10.08, the main issue here is that FGW published a timetable stating that this service would be operated by an HST (that is what it actually says in the booklet, not "Might be operated by an HST" or "Is likely to be replaced by a Turbo at short notice if we feel like it"). Within a couple of weeks of the operation of that timetable, they permanently downgraded the service to a Turbo, without, as far as I am aware, any explanation or apology for the change. Quite apart from whether or not FGW are legally obliged to operate particular types of train, it is surely morally reprehensible for them to have so flagrantly misled the public without making any reparation to those passengers affected. Passengers expecting to travel in a confortable, individual seat in an air-conditioned carriage, with at least a tray table at their disposal if they wish to work and with access to a buffet car and a quiet carriage if they want to escape from the noise of mobiles and personal stereos are denied that possibility. However, unless sufficient passengers complain about this, FGW will no doubt carry on doing just as they wish.

Regarding the coupling of another unit to the existing Turbo for the Oxford to London leg of the journey, if only a six-car unit was used throughout the journey then the overcrowding problem between Charlbury and Oxford could be resolved at a stroke. Simples!

Wed 12 Aug 2009, 13:51

I don't about being sadly wrong. I'm certainly sad. You may be right about the franchise element, though. Presumably we should just grin and bear it if, under the cover of the recession, they also start running turbos at peak time too.

Wed 12 Aug 2009, 09:42

Paul is sadly wrong on so many counts.....FGW can & shouyld continue to improve, but it'll help if we concentrate on what is in need, rather than just having a random rant.

Paul wrote
"So far as ‘complaints’ are concerned, it’s interesting that FGW’s most overt investment in recent times…

Long post - click to read full text

Tue 11 Aug 2009, 22:58

The 11.06 or its previous 30 minutes or so later incarnations have never been an HST - even when the Adelantes were around, that train was always operated by a Turbo, because it is relatively lightly loaded on both legs of its journey out of London and back - something that cannot be said for the first off-peak service towards London.

The Oxford Tube does operate to Charlbury - or its owner does - it's called Stagecoach.

And as I said, there are opening windows on 166s - but they are intended for when the air con really breaks down - the problem is that people ignore the notices stuck all over them, open them anyway and hey presto, the air con packs up because of the force 10 blowing through the coach at 90mph.

All that FGW's franchise requires is that they operate a certain number of trains on the route, making a certain number of stops at the stations, over the course of the day. What type of trains they use is up to them, sadly.

Tue 11 Aug 2009, 19:38

The 7:31 from Charlbury to Oxford this morning once more left early (at 7:28) with some people left behind. The ticket collector/guard (or whatever she's called), when challenged said ".... too late now, the doors are closed ... it's 7:28 ... we've got so much paper work ...."!
God help us!

Tue 11 Aug 2009, 17:22

So far as ‘complaints’ are concerned, it’s interesting that FGW’s most overt investment in recent times seems to be in the army of ‘customer service’ types and ‘passenger champions’ – typical measures to soak up the symptoms of failure (complaints) rather than address underlying problems.

The issue of Oxford Bus and Tube services provides an interesting analogy. I travelled on them a lot when I lived in Oxford, using them to get to work for several years. They were not halcyon days, but not too bad. The problem with the turbos could be expressed in these terms:

Imagine, say, the Oxford Tube won a franchise to operate the coaches between Oxford and London (and had a monopoly to do so). They were also heavily subsidised by the tax payer in this. After a year or so they decide, between 9am and 4pm, to run mostly old rattley buses rather than coaches. Prices remain constant and we are told the proper coaches (air conditioned, spacious, comfortable) are being used elsewhere in the country.

Would passengers say, ‘fair enough’ and just put up with it? I doubt it.

As for the other point raised about FGW ‘monitoring passenger numbers’ on the tubos, I would have thought that most sensible people who could would just avoid these trains (as I do). So what sort of evidence will they be collecting to weigh up whether to bring back HSTs? Just the evidence they want, I suspect.

Tue 11 Aug 2009, 10:20

I wonder why the Oxford Bus Company or the Oxford Tube havent extended their services out to Charlbury and West Oxfordshire?
Could it be - they couldn't stand the complaints?!

Tue 11 Aug 2009, 08:45

So the windows won't open, the air con won't work properly (or at all), the train may leave before the advertised departure time, it may be standing room only, and the refreshment trolley can't reach you. Worth doubling the track for more of this, eh?

Reading all your many experiences, I'm looking forward to abandoning the train and letting the car and bus take the strain in future. Or catching the excellent service from Bicester to Marylebone, which has a proper late evening service back from Marylebone. I should think FGW are putting people off using this line in droves.

When I commuted Oxford-London by train for three years about 15 years ago, they were perfectly capable of devising timetables which could not be operated, and leaving them unchanged year after year. Nothing has changed there then. I soon switched to the coaches, got efficient service, saved a fortune, and snoozed contentedly with the other passengers on the way home.

Mon 10 Aug 2009, 16:06

How temporary the turbos are is of course a worry. And I agree, it’s now impossible to travel from Charlbury after 9.00 and do a late morning meeting in London (even with the Stone Age experience, plus mobile phones). In this respect, it was much better when we had the 9.40 on the old timetable. Coming back mid-afternoon now seems impossible too, unless you wish to endure miserable conditions, or travel 1st class (which is twice the price, roughly comparable to standard class on the HST in terms of comfort, but comes with the joy of a cup of instant FGW coffee and self-important people barking into their mobiles). Were these eventualities in FGW’s bidding document when they took over from Thames Trains, I wonder? Or is this a sector that is simply allowed to break its promises to regulators and the public?

Mon 10 Aug 2009, 11:15

Is this really just temporary? The 11.06 was a HST for quite some time prior to the introduction of the temporary timetable--and one of the reasons I travelled later, rather than on the overcrowded 10.08, whenever I could.

Sun 9 Aug 2009, 10:52

Under the temporary timetable last week and until August 21, the 1045 from Moreton-in-Marsh (11.06 CBY) is operated by an HST, so if you have a late meeting in London, enjoy it while it lasts.

There are tables in standard class in the Class 166 version of the Turbo (look for the number on the front of the train) in the centre coach, not many, but they do exist, and there are windows that can be opened, the problem is that as soon as one is opened the draught they cause tends to kill the output from the feeble air conditioning. The Class 165 variant is not air conditioned and all the windows open but there aren't any tables.

As for the blog, about the one thing that has improved since the Turbo was put on the 8.58 from Malvern is timekeeping, at least as far as Oxford, because there's no problem with doors being left open and a Turbo accelerates better than an HST. Writing to Mr Cameron may be a better idea. I know that Peter Luff, one of the Worcestershire MPs, wrote to the Transport Secretary about Turbos being used on this particular service months ago.

Sun 9 Aug 2009, 08:01

Time to fire up the Cotswold line blog again, I think...

Fri 7 Aug 2009, 21:26

As far as I can see, it's now impossible to go into London for a meeting on a weekday WITHOUT using a Turbo unless you get a London-bound train on which most discounts (and Network cards) don't apply.

This is absolutely NOT what we were promised when the Adelantes were introduced, or when the upgraded HSTs were introduced.

It's not just overcrowding. The climate control on Turbos is medieval (actually worse, since there aren't any windows to open), there are no tables to work at and if you haven't got a back problem, Turbos are perfect for showing you how wrong you they are.

How did the service get downgrade like this, and why is FGW allowed to get away with it?

Fri 7 Aug 2009, 11:31

Trains that were Turboed are, as far as I can recall, the 05.42 London to Malvern and 8.58 return (CBY 10.06), the 09.21 London to Worcester (CBY 10.42) and the 12.06 Worcester to London (CBY 13.06) and the 13.21 London to Worcester (CBY 14.37) and 17.00 Malvern to London (CBY 18.47). Anything else on the timetable without the little H blob to show an HST was operated by a Turbo at the timetable change last December

Fri 7 Aug 2009, 10:16

I am trying to obtain a definitive list of trains that have been converted from HST to turbos. Will post the info here as soon as I get it.

Thu 6 Aug 2009, 13:54

Derek, I can assure you that Teresa Ceesay does travel on occasion on that train and is well aware of passengers' feelings on the use of a Turbo, as indeed are the higher-ups at FGW, even if it's not Teresa's area of responsibility. The CLPG is monitoring loadings on that service as part of efforts to get an HST back, so if you have any observations, email John Ellis at ellis.consultant@virgin.net

While the 17.35 is advertised as such, there is also, as Chris Bates notes, the working timetable, which is what staff use, and if the train left at 17.35, it would indeed be in the way of the CrossCountry service, plus there is another train coming the other way off the single line to factor in. They do need a bit of time in hand at present, because west of Charlbury much of the track to Ascott has been moved in the past fortnight and has a 50mph speed limit.

Wed 5 Aug 2009, 23:59

I think you'll find that Teresa is in charge of STATIONS, not the line as a whole, which is a big difference. I know what she looks like but don't recall her ever being on the 10.08 when I've been on it this year.

Wed 5 Aug 2009, 16:47

Paul: I am led to believe that the current manager of the line, Theresa Ceesay, DOES travel every day up and down the line, and on all sorts of rolling stock.

Wed 5 Aug 2009, 09:57

My experience entirely; hence I’ve tried my best to avoid it. Coming back is nearly as bad too, unless you’re willing to wait until peak time. I really wonder how they manage to get away with this. It would be good if passengers had the right to compel the managers that make these decisions to try the journey themselves. It’s not as if it’s any cheaper in these cattle trucks, or that you can barter your way on, say in return for couple of chickens (which someone would seem appropriate).

Tue 4 Aug 2009, 22:08

On most occasions that I've used the 10.08 in recent months it has been very full, and often standing room only between Charlbury and Oxford. It's deplorable really - this was advertised as being an HST service, with a buffet car, quiet carriages and individual "airline-style" seats. What do we actually get? A drinks trolley (if we're lucky and it can safely navigate the overcrowded carriages), an invasion of body space if one is squashed between two "lardies" on the middle seat of a row of three and scores of wittering berks on their mobile phones! And all just so that FGW can save a bit of money on fuel! If only the cost-saving was passed onto us poor, long-suffering passengers...

Tue 4 Aug 2009, 17:30

Talking of trains getting 'back to normal', what is the state of play with the trains used on the 10:08 from Charlbury and early afternoon services back from Paddington? When the new timetable came out, FGW succeeded in downgrading these services to Turbos, despite being advertised as high-speed trains (supposedly because they’d miscalculated what rolling stock they’d need across the network). Have they sorted this, or are passengers still enduring third-world comfort at these times? What are people’s experiences?

Tue 4 Aug 2009, 11:22

Graham: the Cotswold Line Blog is to be found about halfway down the home page, on the left-hand side. It is largely moribund these days, presumably because the service is much improved comapred to how it once was.

Tue 4 Aug 2009, 08:31

The advertised 1735 Oxford - Moreton-in-Marsh seems to now be departing at 1740 - probably due to a Virgin train departing for Birmingham at 1735 - are there any other times published in the timetable booklet that are incorrect?

Mon 3 Aug 2009, 14:52

I have been informed that there was an error in the Driver's / working Timetable which meant that it left at 0729....rather than sitting for 2 minutes and departing at 0731.

I am assured that a correction has been made and that the train tomorrow WILL leave at 0731 as per public timetable.

Mon 3 Aug 2009, 09:21

I've asked FGW to inverstigate & report back to me.

Mon 3 Aug 2009, 08:31

The trains resumed today and should be running to the timetable published by FGW for the period 3-21 August. However, my wife turned up for the scheduled 7:31 to Oxford to learn that the driver was operating a different timetable and had left at 7:24 - Classic FGW planning!! (Other comments self-censored!)
I would like to have put this information on the Cotswold Line Blog; but, it seems, it is nowhere to be found on this site. Is it perhaps still there but hidden away from menus etc.?
Does anyone know about what the 'real' timetable is for this period?