The Bell - Potential option?

Sat 30 Apr 2022, 08:52

As a former employee of the Bell Hotel, (Ok it was back in 1980 - 82) it is really sad that a beautiful building within the town has been totally negleted. In my opinion many people have tried to run it with a consortium of investers all looking for a quick return on their investment, then a large brewery takes it over and dangling a huge carrot to entice new tenants also looking for a quick buck. Then when it does do well, the brewery ups all it prices and locks the managment into a system where they can only buy all the stock etc from them.

The only way that this prize assett will work is for a single investor to purhase  it outright, renovate and run the business independently, enabling them to put their own ideas of unique interior decor, menus and drinks. We do not what a chainstore type inn where all the style is the same. 

So what if JC does own it,at least it'll be open and keeping a number of local people employed, there will be management, chefs, waitering, household and bar staff, etc etc.

Fri 29 Apr 2022, 09:30

Where have I said they have no social value? I left plenty for you to debate without putting words into my mouth that I don’t think. I’d love nothing more than it to be open.

I know the background to why to why it is currently closed, a situation which presents significant cost to a business to rectify. All your points about viability are all true, it’s why we’re lucky to have a thriving destination like The Bull. But is there the demand for two places providing that service? Especially when one of them will do so at a higher standard than Greene King establishments typically provides. That will be a question they are factoring in, alongside those restoration costs.

Having history doesn’t mean the status quo must remain the same. There’s hundreds of similar examples of community public houses changing use or churches being sold to become flats or private homes due to falling attendance - there’s one literally on the market in Chadlington right now. Will happen here too, one or more of the Charlbury churches will go the same way within the next decade. Which is perfectly fine if it’s not being used.

Fri 29 Apr 2022, 08:03

James Norris - it has not been closed as ‘unviable’.  Some people took on a lease, started to undertake major works and then panicked when they found out the building was listed.

National planning policy, thankfully, does not share your views that pubs have no social value - they are afforded protection as community assets.  The Bell, of course, has other infrastructure which we (well, many of us) miss.

In any case, the idea that it is unviable to run a hotel established in 1700, with a fine set of listed buildings, accommodation, a large restaurant and function rooms, in a marketable location one hour from London and perfect for Cotswold weekend breaks, doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.  The tale of The Bell over the last 30 years is unfortunate, but it takes a certain type of organisation to be so incompetent as to fail to run it successfully, by insisting it is run as a tenanted pub.

Fri 29 Apr 2022, 07:39 (last edited on Fri 29 Apr 2022, 09:31)

You’re significantly overstating your/community relevance in the decision making process of a large national business, Miles. You can object to a (hypothetical) change of status and it might be considered at county level, but to think you or a collection of locals have any significant say in what a private business really does is silly.

If it is viable they won’t close it. We don’t know what their plans are and don’t have any significant right to know just because we live near it. Of course derelict is not the lesser of the two evils, it rules out all the potential upsides of any (again, purely hypothetical) change of use, such as bringing somebody into the community who might provide an even greater service/source of employment/community function than a continuation as is could.

When people rally against change due to fear of change you end up with situations, like in Chadlington, where community action worked and some people nitpicked at the idea of Clarkson opening a restaurant on the laughably spurious grounds of ‘light pollution’. All it did was deprive the community of a much needed additional service and employment opportunities.

Thu 28 Apr 2022, 23:19

James, we have to carful about saying things like this. It is not a business decision. Our rights as a comunity are more important. It’s illegal for them change use without consent. And if we agree to ‘better than derelict’ then we give a route to every company to close viable businesses. So yes. Better derelict than give a green light to the closing of all country businesses. 

Thu 28 Apr 2022, 10:42

James - it is a listed building as well as a community asset, so Greene King would be breaking the law by such a course of action.

Thu 28 Apr 2022, 06:15 (last edited on Thu 28 Apr 2022, 06:22)

Rod, your last line is the point. A bit of clarity would be nice, but only because we’re naturally nosy/inquisitive and don’t like being out of the loop. But to be fair, they’re under not obligation to provide it while they figure out internally what to do with the place As a business their only obligation is to take a course of action which maximises return and if that isn’t as a inn then it won’t be, regardless of history. 

I’m not assuming it will be anything, merely offering an opinion on the similar scenario you put forward. A change of use in that way, even as a large single household, would be better than years of vacancy and the place slowly becoming dilapidated. That would be a much bigger shame.

Wed 27 Apr 2022, 23:17

Gareth - I'd certainly be interested in a meeting, if only to discuss options.

James (and 'likes'), all due respect but you are missing the point.  The Bell has been an Inn in the centre of town for I don't know how many hundreds of years.  No-one can be forced to run a business but there is no reason why, if properly run, it should not thrive as an Inn - in the true sense - thus providing employment and drawing in visitors etc not to mention providing a facility for locals.

You can't assume there'd be a similar proposal here to the case I mentioned.  As a property company - which effectively is what GK now is - if they went for a change of use, they'd be looking to maximise their return.  As demonstrated elsewhere in the town, that would probably mean a small no of large houses - which WODC seem only too happy to allow - rather than more affordable homes.  But no conclusions to be drawn until we have some idea at least of their intentions.

Wed 27 Apr 2022, 20:50

Rod - the TC (well, I) have asked.  Unfortunately the situation is far from clear.

I would be happy to have an informal meeting about it for those interested, if people are interested.

Wed 27 Apr 2022, 18:04

Better 3 flats and 2 additional dwellings than a vacant pub. Might still get the odd drink by befriending an incoming resident.

Wed 27 Apr 2022, 14:03

There are of course many more important issues confronting us just now but readers of this thread may take some comfort from a planning appeal decision I've just read about.  Conversion of an Inn in Midsomer Norton, Somerset to 3 flats and 2 additional dwellings was dismissed as the Inn was not shown to be 'unviable' and it was found to be a 'valued facility within the community'.  Greene King take note.

It irritates me each time I walk past, knowing the building will be slowly - and maybe deliberately - deteriorating - see my previous post.  If the TC hasn't already asked GK what their intentions are (I couldn't find anything on searching the website) could it please do so?  Any other suggestions?? 

Thu 7 Apr 2022, 22:52

I speak from a position of total ignorance of what GK may be up to but a building of this age and construction left uninhabited inevitably deteriorates rapidly.  I have seen a tactic elsewhere where this has been allowed to happen, so paving the way for a planning application for a change of use on the basis of a lack of viability.  Not forgetting that here there is a lot of land and an annexe behind it - ramifications obvious.

The Bell is a valuable asset for the town.  It doesn't need a new manager, parachuted in with no understanding of either the place or often, how to run a pub.  It needs a new owner.  But please, even at Easter, not someone with the initials JC!

Tue 5 Apr 2022, 09:38

Paul, Looks like the Bell site, not only needs a manager, but quite a bit of refurbishment.

Not sure it will ever really prosper under the GK business model. Probably needs someone with deep pockets to be successful,  like the  Royal Oak in Ramsden, Swan in Ascott, Chequers in Churchill or the Kingham pubs.

Tue 5 Apr 2022, 09:35

Paul - was that they way of saying 'no, Greene King won't sponsor'?

Tue 5 Apr 2022, 09:30

I contacted Greene King reference possible sponsorship for the Jubilee Raffle and was told that they are recruiting a Manager but the vacancy is not on their website??

Mon 4 Apr 2022, 14:50

Does anybody know what actually is happening there? There are sometimes lights on in the building, and the pub isn’t shown as an ‘opportunity’ on the Greene King website. I’d heard rumours that new tenants were going to be up and running by June but no more than that.

Mon 4 Apr 2022, 11:22

If the Bell becomes an ACV I'm happy to help in whatever way I can.

Mon 4 Apr 2022, 09:35

Football & Sports Club also cheap. All pints including San Miguel and Guinness are £3.80!

Sun 3 Apr 2022, 00:33

James, I disagree.

The Exemplary Pub Of Charlbury (EPOC) sells beer with prices starting at £3.90!

Sat 2 Apr 2022, 19:36

Chaz, £6 a pint is the reality regardless of whoever takes it on. 

Sat 2 Apr 2022, 17:43 (last edited on Sat 2 Apr 2022, 17:47)

Who owns Greene King? The Chinese - after David Cameron took the Chinese Premier for a pint at a Greene King pub near Chequers.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49400232#:~:text=Pub%20giant%20and%20brewer%20Greene,King%20at%20%C2%A32.7bn.

One may not entirely approve of what has happened to Kingham and Daylesford,  but there is no doubt that the Bamfords have breathed life into it. Maybe JCSuperstar might do the same at the Bell? 

Sat 2 Apr 2022, 17:24

Clarkson running the Bell? Well you might change your mind if you were to head up to his farmshop when it's open. There are 100s of cars. That would probably happen at the Bell as well. Charlbury traffic jam!

Sat 2 Apr 2022, 13:31

Charlie re your 3), yes - it was done in December.  We are awaiting a decision from WODC.

Sat 2 Apr 2022, 11:44 (last edited on Sat 2 Apr 2022, 11:46)

I have various questions, observations and opinions:

1) What are Greene King up to? Suddenly it was empty, and - according to some accounts - asset-stripped? Who stripped the assets? Why are Greene King not after whoever did it, and taking action to restore the assets?

2) Greene King are duty bound, as its owners, to preserve and upkeep this listed building. Why are they not being pursued by the relevant authorities/bodies?

3) I assume that our Town Council have now taken the necessary action to have The Bell declared an Asset of Community Value (ACV). Has this happened? And if not, why not?

4) As I said in a previous post, "Personally I would love to see The Bell reopen exactly as it was. The food and beer were absolutely superb, and I would be sad to see it turned into another highfalutin glory box where you are expected to pay £6 for a pint!". I expect my reference was blindingly obvious to most, and it is essential that this does not happen to The Bell.

5) Regarding occupation, as Michele suggests, I would be in favour of this in principle, but would this be seen legally or morally as a case of "shooting ourselves in the foot" in terms of the ACV status?

6) Whatever happens, Charlbury NEEDS The Bell. Just as it was before!

End of rant.

Sat 2 Apr 2022, 10:04

Could we organize a community squat at The Bell? Squatter's rights and all that. At least it would mean that SOMETHING would happen at our lovely Bell.

Or maybe someone should actually get in touch with Clarkson.