BT issues

Thu 7 Oct 2021, 17:14 (last edited on Thu 7 Oct 2021, 17:24)

I can only think Hugo did not read the same posting by Simon that I have. Just where was there any rubbishing of the Gigaclear network?

As it is, the regulatory issues are such that Openreach would almost certainly not be allowed to purchase the Gigaclear network, even if it was put up for sale.

On the subject of wholesaling, in that Gigaclear may be required to do so their network, it is on nothing remotely like the way Openreach is required to do so, or the same price controls with things like "margin squeeze" tests and so on. It's more of a re-selling exercise than unbundling, and lacks all the extremely complex IT portal services required for the likes of Sky and TalkTalk. Those are for things like ordering, monitoring, change management, problem handling, configuration, wholesale billing, cessation and so on. Trust me, these are anything but trivial to implement, test and make work and represents a lot of investment by the ISPs and requires scale for the mass market. Many customers will be familiar with the issues involved when multiple organisation are used in fulfilling a service.

On public money, Gigaclear did not receive any for their work in Charlbury, although they did receive public money for work in surrounding villages and some of that will have enabled the work in our town as it brought the fibre closer. Of course, Openreach received money to subsidise the Charlbury network under BDUK, but I would think the "clawback" process whereby high take-up returns funds will have meant much of that has been returned (as of October 2020 the "clawback" was estimated at about £900m by the NAO - in total of course, not Charlbury alone...).

nb. I would never trust Openreach engineers on rumours involving business matters. I suspect there's often an element of wish fullfillment in such things.

Tue 5 Oct 2021, 10:01

Fascinating thread. So when BT and SKY take over Gigaclear we will all be on Fibre???

Tue 5 Oct 2021, 05:16

Hugo, he wasn’t rubbishing Gigaclear, he was saying that a lot of the BT network was installed decades ago and is simply old technology which is failing and needs replacing.  Why would they consider replacing all of their network when they can acquire a new one?  I guess we will find out eventually. 

Tue 5 Oct 2021, 00:44

Who knows?

Gigaclear is controlled by a Scottish plc.  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/07476617/persons-with-significant-control

Mon 4 Oct 2021, 22:17

I thought gigaclear in Charlbury had no public subsidy. I am not sure if that makes a difference, but just want to understand the situation. 

Mon 4 Oct 2021, 21:55

Sorry Simon, but that simply is not the case. The Openreach engineer is trying to rubbish a network built and operated by a competitor. Gigaclear built their network with funding from the public and private sectors and are obliged under their funding contract to offer open access to their network, but the wholesale rates preclude most other providers from offering services. They might use Gigaclear dark fibre in certain circumstances, but even that is unlikely as it means that Openreach wouldn't own any infrastructure and therefore would have no business model.

Mon 4 Oct 2021, 20:12

Steve, I heard a rumour from an Openreach engineer that once Gigaclear are finished installing the fibre optic network, that BT and Sky will take over the infrastructure as theirs is all antiquated and desperately needs replacing.  He said that all of the components used by Gigaclear are BT compatible (and some of them are even supplied by BT).  No idea if there is any truth in this but I guess it would make sense as fibre optic seems to be the way forward. 

Mon 4 Oct 2021, 17:15

It was definitely an issue with cabinet 3 (Enstone crossroads) and would not have affected any others with this sort of fault. However, it does service a lot of properties in Charlbury.

As for fibre, there are no active components in those Gigaclear green boxes. Like most full fibre optic installations in the UK it uses a variety of PON (Passive Optical Network). This means there are passive "splitters" which allows several properties to share the same fibre from that point back to where it is terminated in the suppliers network (which can be up to 20km away). The only powered components are at the network supplier's end and in the households. In contrast, those VDSL cabinets need power and are stuffed full of active components (and their fibre is terminated in, I believe, Witney). In principle full fibre ought to be more reliable, but nothing (short of multiple, independent physical paths) will prevent problems caused by cables being dug up or exposed cabinets being wiped out.

Some ISPs have services which will automatically re-route data via the 4G network should the land based services fail.

If Open Reach were to put in full fibre (FTTP) into Charlbury, then there would be a lot of the same disruption involved, although OR will have more extensive underground ducting, but that doesn't mean it extends to individual properties.

Sun 3 Oct 2021, 22:17 (last edited on Sun 3 Oct 2021, 22:19)

Quite so Richard. Nothing is ever foolproof and totally guaranteed to never go wrong. It's how quickly it's put right that matters.

Interestingly, I am using EE for broadband superfast fibre (up to 68Mb/s) but that, of course, still uses the BT infrastructure and cables like just about all the "normal" broadband suppliers in UK, other than the cable companies such as Gigaclear.

We have had no problems over this period with our connection, so it does seem likely that the difficulty many have had is related to one or more of the cabinets, the green roadside boxes, that generally provide fibre broadband around Charlbury.  Presumably Little Lees uses cabinets that were unaffected by whatever went wrong with some others that caused this drop-out.

Sun 3 Oct 2021, 21:36

Maggie, one will always be at the mercy of one's provider. This one involved BT/Openreach services that underpin several providers, including mine, which is ZEN.  If a fault develops in one of Gigaclear's shiny new green boxes (or a car takes it out, as happened with the Openreach box on the corner) you would have the same result--no service until it is repaired. Then the crucial issue is how quickly it gets repaired. Generally speaking, Openreach has not been too bad on this. Gigaclear remains untested.

So, yes, a difficult choice.

Sun 3 Oct 2021, 20:14 (last edited on Sun 3 Oct 2021, 20:16)

I hate to say it, but is it time to move to Gigaclear? Just so you aren’t at the mercy of BT.

I was affected by this outage and when Gigaclear were installing their cables I did not have internet or phone at home for a week. A very difficult choice.

Sun 3 Oct 2021, 19:26

That would be entirely consistent with the broadband coming back online at 11:08, assuming that there was a bit of clearing up and (electronic) paperwork to do. It just looks like something in the box needed swapping out.

Sun 3 Oct 2021, 19:12

There was a BT Openreach van parked in the road works when I drove past at around 11.30 this morning.  

Sun 3 Oct 2021, 15:44

From my router log, the connection went down at 18:34:02 on Saturday and it returned at 11:08:20 this morning (Sunday).

Initially I had thought it must be something to do with the road works, so I walked up to the cross-roads, but not sign of any issues. My suspicion is that it was a fault in the VDSL DSLAM in the cabinet and that Openreach came along and fixed it.

At least this time it was caused by an accident as I recall the box had to be replaced and it ran on battery power (with three outages a day when those were swapped out), and that went on for about 3 weeks until the the local electricity supplier reconnected the box.

Sun 3 Oct 2021, 13:11

I noticed that I had lost internet at about 6.30 last night.  Battled with the router from 7 am this morning. Sought advice from my daughter in Geneva - no luck. Son finally came on the phone from London and after several ideas failed I took a photo of the back of of the router. Nick suggested I try the RESET button and would you believe immediate success. Pints all round!

Sun 3 Oct 2021, 12:49

BT returns but now the lights on the junction have failed!!  I've reported this to Thames Water.

Sun 3 Oct 2021, 11:52

Our internet is back!

Sun 3 Oct 2021, 08:39

Contacted BT about internet issues. Advised that will be back on by Monday at 0100. Not sure if anything to do with crossroads. Thames water fixed massive leak. Was causing cavity/sinkhole under the crossroads. At least they fixed it. Otherwise we would not have a crossroads at all. I have been told the hole will be filled and surface repaired this week. The non-operative temporary traffic lights at the crossroads have been reported to Thames water and Police 101.

Sun 3 Oct 2021, 07:33

Looks like I too was ‘fooled’ by the magic that is 4G! 
Still out with me on Ticknell Piece!  Great!!!😡😡😡

Sun 3 Oct 2021, 00:02

Thank you, Jill. I had a phishing email, apparently from BT, earlier in the day.

This is simple loss of broadband. The hub is still flashing orange. It started about 18.30, and BT claimed to know about it then, even though they were reporting that it started at 19.37. Made me wonder if BT had relocated to the EU, perhaps because of Brexit. Or to a tax haven somewhere. 

Sat 2 Oct 2021, 23:28

I have no doubt you have all had problems with your connection but after reading them I felt I had to post about a scam that is hitting all BT broadband users and taking thousands of pounds from people’s accounts. It was not myself but a close friend that has just fell victim to the scam. She called her supplier to discuss the problem, she then received a call back from them and later that day they took thousands of pounds from her account. Please all make sure you go about checking this connection with great caution and not giving out any personal details in the process. 

Sat 2 Oct 2021, 23:07

Apologies ... I said earlier BT Broadband OK around Thames Street: I have my cable connection backed up with EE 4G connection so I my router must have switched to using the 4G when the cable connection went down.

Sat 2 Oct 2021, 23:05

Had just settled down & started watching a good movie, when ‘bam’ my broadband went! Seems to be back up now. On Ticknell Piece as well. 

Sat 2 Oct 2021, 22:46

Ditto. Wychwood close, with Zen, no broadband. Hmph. 

Sat 2 Oct 2021, 20:46

Also Ticknell with Zen and no broadband.  Landline seems alive though. I hope is not related to the digging at the crossroads.

Sat 2 Oct 2021, 20:44

I’m on The Green and with BT - lost WiFi at about 7:30.  

Sat 2 Oct 2021, 20:12

I’m on ticknell and my sky broadband has been down all evening 

Sat 2 Oct 2021, 20:02

I'm on Ticknell Piece Road and our broadband died a few hours ago too. I really hope it's back before Monday!

Sat 2 Oct 2021, 20:01

BT Broadband OK for me at 20:00 near Thames Street. Is the problem localised or has it been fixed?

Sat 2 Oct 2021, 19:42

Yes. Me too. But BT said it was first reported an hour later than it was on the clock! Not sure what is going on. 

Sat 2 Oct 2021, 19:42

Same here!

Sat 2 Oct 2021, 19:29

Anyone else lost BT broadband? BT say issues have been reported and will be fixed at 00.59hrs on Monday!!