9:38 to London no more after 13 December.

Mon 22 Dec 2008, 15:42

Could be he lives in charlbury and reads the forum .???

Mon 22 Dec 2008, 11:04

Today I took the replacement 10.08 with my daughter into Oxford. The cycle carriage was full so in spite of having a (just one) reservation, we had to walk the extent of the train from the back to the lead carriage to load our bikes. The vertical bike storage is a bit more difficult as you have to lift the entire bike and mount the front heel on hook between its spokes. Not something a child can do.

We arrived at Oxford station only a few minutes behind schedule and exited to retrieve our bikes. My bike came out fine, but my daughter's bike spokes were too close together to unhook her bike quickly: it took an additional 2 minutes. By the time I successfully unhooked the bike, an anxious train guard was at the door, asking repeatedly 'you alright?, you alright?' As I got off the train with my daughter's bike, I explained in passing that the hooks were a bit ackward in the bike carriage. I assumed no tone of voice, just an explanation.

The train guard's response:

"Buy a car".

I said, "pardon me?"

He repeated "Buy a car".

Now I was aware that the automotive industry was in trouble both in the US and the UK, sales are down, jobs on the line etc. and the government was thinking of nationalising Jaguar/Rover, but I had no idea that First Great Western staff were now encouraging their passengers to buy cars as a matter of course.

Do they get paid for the advertising?

Mon 15 Dec 2008, 17:21

Susie: you're confusing the Advance fare with the off-peak walk-up fare. The £4 fare is only available if you book in advance, you are restricted to certain trains on which you can travel and must use the ticket on one specified train only. The standard off-peak single fare from Paddington to Oxford is £18.90.

Mon 15 Dec 2008, 16:16

Regarding the anomaly of fares, perhaps Chris could tell me why a ticket from Paddington to Charlbury on a Saturday afternoon costs £21.60, however a ticket from Paddington to Oxford would cost £4.00 and the cost of a ticket from Oxford to Charlbury would be £4.80 !!!

Sat 13 Dec 2008, 14:18

Ode written on the occasion of the demise of a much-loved train service:

"So farewell then, nine thirty-eight.
You may have been crowded, and often late
But somehow you were always there
(Except on the days when you were cancelled of course).
We shall not see your like again:
You've been replaced by the eight past ten."

Fri 12 Dec 2008, 16:44

Richard -

I can answer most of this query without reference toi FGW.....

You have been caught by the fares anomolies across the old Network SouthEast (NSE) boundary (of which Didcot was a border station and SWindon was the first station outside) and FGW's attempts at closing the gap between those fares within and across this old boundary.

FGW are trying to close these anomalies slowly (hence the REading & Didcot fares getting proportionally closer together), but they haven't yet got around to closing the gap at Swindon - so it is usually cheaper to rebook from Swindon for any longer distance journey in that direction - and again at Plymouth for journeys into Cornwall)

This just shows that savings can be had if you are willing to put some detective work into checking fares along your longer distance routes - FGW accept that if customers are willing to put some effort into this then they could find cheaper fares - and hence are only closing these gaps slowly, rather than wholesale - and why fares to Swindon are now so dear.

Didcot to Swindon Anytime single is £15....that's a pound for every minute you're on the train....

To give FGW their due, these anomolies have existed since the demise of the old British Rail - and haven't just appeared recently. THose in the know, know that there are points across the whole country at which it is cheaper to rebook - I'm surprised someone hasn't written a book on it....

Fri 12 Dec 2008, 10:33

Chris, one more fares problem for you (this is turning into "Dear Uncle FGW").

Historically, services from Charlbury to the West - e.g. Exeter - have been available at two prices: an expensive journey via Reading, and a cheaper "not Reading" ticket.

Recently, the price of the "not Reading" ticket has rocketed. An Anytime Return to Exeter (not Reading), for example, is now £133; it's around £150 via Reading. The differential used to be much greater.

But if you rebook at Swindon, you can still get a fare at around the old price, with exactly the same validity: £50 Anytime Return Charlbury-Swindon, £40 Anytime Return Swindon-Exeter, making a more reasonable £90 in all. This makes me think it's probably a mistake, but nonetheless a serious one - Anna has taken to driving to Swindon when she needs to go to Exeter for work. Could you look into this?

(For what it's worth £50 seems extortionate to me for the Charlbury-Swindon leg: Reading is a similar distance by train, i.e. one stop past Didcot, and an Anytime Day Return to Reading is only £16.10. Offering a day ticket from Charlbury to Swindon would be enormously useful, especially if the rumoured Moreton-Didcot trains are introduced after redoubling. But that's another issue!)

Fri 12 Dec 2008, 10:14

I have received confirmation on a couple of fares-related issues.....

Unfortunately, FGW have confirmed that there is an error in the online version of the fares manual and off-peak DAY tickets (including travelcards) are NOT valid on the three peak evening services - 1721 / 1752 / 1821 from London Paddington. They are currently putting this right - but until they do, they have to honour these tickets...

Off-peak PERIOD tickets (the old saver) ARE valid for returning on these trains....

Questions are being asked....just how long this error has been present: has it just appeared since the last fares manual revision, or does it go back several revisions....and how many customers have been incorrectly excessed or penalty-fare-d....

Re the Senior Railcard problem - this is actually a national problem in that the rules are as set out in the national T&Cs....the problem arises when any operator allows a dispensation for travel with discount tickets on certain train(s) that would otherwise be barred by the national rules on those tickets.

It is not possible to get these dispensations added to the online fares manual for senior railcard discounts without reference to ATOC (Association of Train Operating Companies - the overall trade organisation of operators). FGW need to tread carefully in raising this problem as ATOC can demand the removal of these dispensations if FGW want to continue to accept this national railcard.

So for the time being, please obtain tickets for this train from the booking office, rather than online - there is not a problem there, just online.

I'm still working on the carnet question....

Thu 11 Dec 2008, 09:16

Chris - the explanation is further down the thread - and unfortunately there is no chance of its return until after the re-doubling is completed - likely in May 2010.

Wed 10 Dec 2008, 16:09

It seems a shame that FGW is no longer going to run this popular 9.38 service to Oxford and London. How was this ever agreed to? What are the chances of the service being re-instated into the sunmmer timetable?

Wed 10 Dec 2008, 09:33

Christine -

FGW are still chercking the fares availability out - I'll pass on your SEnior Railcard query....

My point about getting a note from the ticket office is to prove that you were sold a cheap day product when clearly stating that you wanted to return on a peak evening service - FGW can hardly penalty fare you for a ticket that was bought in good faith for the journey you were caught on.....

Tue 9 Dec 2008, 11:43

And there I was feeling really grateful to FGW for changing their policy over peak hour return fares,(& hence my defence of FGW in the face of Derek's complaints). My favourable comments are now rescinded ...

Chris, whilst you are checking issues to do with fares, please could you also check the following. The up-to-date online information on Senior Railcards clearly says that Senior (not Network) railcards are valid from Charlbury on the 8.38. But this price option is no longer showing up on line for Senior fares. Again, I hope this is simply a mistake. Surely moving the train time to 8.35 shouldn't make a difference to such an important concession as this (all the more important now that the 9.38 no longer exists).

A further problem arises with the new timetable next week, since from that point cheap day return tickets aren't valid on the 17.20, but are available on the other peak-hour trains (according to the on-line choices on offer, that is).

What a mess! And how absolutely impossible for any passenger to understand! I can't imagine that FGW would have a hope of enforcing penalty fares in such circumstances--especially since the cheaper option is avaiable on-line & also, quite explicitly, at the Ticket Office. (Now also the ticket machine classes Cheap Day returns as Standard Day Returns, I think.) The notion that a note from the ticket office should provide a note as a necessary defence strikes me as absurd ...

Tue 9 Dec 2008, 10:31

Derek -

You are right - there appears to be an error (as William says, it is likely to be the (online?) Fares manual that is wrong) - and you can currently buy these off-peak day tickets online, and as the ticket offices use the same database, they will be seeing this availability too.

However, I suspect the printed version is correct, and this is what the REvenue Protection guys will be using, so expect to get caught....
As you are allowed to buy these currently at points of sale, I would arm yourselves with a a note from the Charlbury ticket office saying that uyour ticket was sold with the knowledge that you were wanting to travel back on an evening peak service....then you can't be penalty-fared....

If you book online, take a screen print of those services being offered on off-peak day tickets, and carry it with you.

I will raise this today with both Passenger Focus & FGW - but until this is fixed, yes, you can use these tickets!

Richard - That fares manual you refer to is at least two editions out of date, and maybe three now. You can no longer refer to a current fares manual online as it is password protected, amazingly!

However, those easements at Tackley (and Heyford!) were negotiated by my User Group as the peak service at those stations is crap - two trains each way, both all-station stoppers - still exist.

You can still use the 1621 / 1622 to return to stations beyond Oxford - which is why I didn't list it in my last post. However, there is a restriction on that train as far as Oxford itself.

Susie - you confiorm what I stated - that period (valid for more than one day) off-peak tickets are valid on the return for all evening peak trains.

Mon 8 Dec 2008, 14:11

When I was travelling up to London two years ago, they used to give out over the tannoy system on the train, that for anyone travelling as far as Oxford the Saver, and Super Saver were not valid. However, if you were travelling beyond Oxford there were OK. This was for all the peak time trains leaving Paddington between 5.21 and 6.21pm.

Mon 8 Dec 2008, 11:47

(Warning: extreme geekiness follows)

My suspicion is that the Fares Manual and the timetable - the data behind the online journey planners - are out of sync. It's not unknown for the manual to say (for example) "not valid on the 16.46" when the train has been retimed to 16.45. And that, fortunately, is FGW's problem, not yours!

However, should you want to use the 16.22 (16.21?), you appear to be able to circumvent it anyway by asking for a ticket from/to Ascott. There is an express "easement" in the Fares Manual:

"Holders of Cheap Day tickets and Off-Peak Day Travelcards from Shipton, Ascott-u-Wychwood, Finstock, Combe, Tackley, Heyford, Islip and Bicester Town may also travel on the following service: London Paddington – Oxford dep. 1622"

Page M3 at www.atoc.org/retail/_downloads/NFM98/NFM98_West_M.pdf has the gory details. (For the really keen it also suggests that cheap tickets are available from 7am at Tackley...)

Mon 8 Dec 2008, 11:20

I agree that this issue needs sorting out. Using the FGW website, I've just priced up a ticket for a hypothetical journey to London this afternoon. The website states that both the CDR and the One Day Travelcard ARE VALID for the three rush hour services between 15.51 and 19.21 for which they have not been valid for several years. Clarity please!

Mon 8 Dec 2008, 09:41

I thought the new rail fares were supposed to be simple! If Chris Bates is right, it's clear that the Ticket Office at Charlbury Station hasn't understood the new fare structure any more than me. I was recently sold an off-peak Day Return ticket, with a Travel Card, & explicitly told that it was valid for returning during rush hours.

Mon 8 Dec 2008, 09:00

Derek -

I wrote that the off-peak ticket with railcard is 'rtidulously cheap' *when copmpared to the season ticket'.....I certainly wasn't arguing about your personal cicumstances as I know nothing about them.

To be honest, you've just shown what good value the train is against the coach....going by your figures, I'd be happy to spend an extra £1.10 to be in London an hour earlier than the coach! I grant you that yes, you can return at amy time using the coach, but the coach does take an average of another 30 minutes in rush-hour traffic - longer if there's a hold-up on the M40.....

Everyone's circumstances are different which is why a variety of different ways of getting to London exist....and everyone will make their own decision.

I think the numbers speak for themselves and why the trains are packed in rush-hours.....

I checked on the evening restrictions returning from London with off-peak tickets, to destinations *beyond* Oxford.....

An off-peak PERIOD return (the old saver) IS valid on any train.

An off-peak DAY return (including the off-peak Travelcard) is NOT valid on 1722, 1751 & 1821, regardless of whether a Railcard discount is used.

I am still discussing carnets.

Sun 7 Dec 2008, 21:49

At last, some positive news about First Great Western! A satisfied customer speaks:

“deer peapull of charberry. yesturday i went to lundon on a big trayne called furst grate weston and it was nice. the trayne was very cleen and went very fast and was always on tyme and it was grate. daddie said that the tickits were very reesonablie pryced. a man in a uniforme came to inspekt our tickits and hee put a big blak cross on them with his buyrow and he smyled at me and he was a nice man. daddie did not gett a cross put on his tickit. this is becos daddie has sumfing called a sea-sun tickit. i do not no wot this meens but i think it is sumfing you can hav only if you are rich. daddie works in the citi and urns lots of monee and he is verry rich. on the way home from lundon the trayne was on tim again. i think that thirst grate westurn traynes are always on tyme and are reely grate. wen we got home i had tee and caykes and the caykes were nice so i had some moore and they were nice as well. then i went to bed and i had a dreem about a rale weigh that is always reely grate and wear the traynes always arive and are always on tyme and it was a nice dreem

derek (age 6¾)”

Fri 5 Dec 2008, 22:09

I really can't agree with that Christine. I have made many positive comments and constructive suggestions relating to FGW this year, both on this forum and on the blog, about Carnets, Jane Jones, the ticket machine, the station improvements, etc. Please don't read just one posting in isolation and assume that it encapsulates my entire personal philosophy!

I think everyone would agree that FGW improved significantly at the start of this year. Why did that happen? Largely because people like me (and many others besides) wrote letters of complaint, posted comments on websites like this one and attended public meetings. If we hadn't done so then the service would probably still be just as bad today. In my opinion, the service has declined markedly since the end of the summer and I think I'm entitled to point that fact out. If people don't take the trouble to point out FGW's failings to them then the company will just sit on its hands and do nothing to improve. I don't want that to happen so that's why I speak out when I feel that FGW is not delivering the service that we as customers are entitled to. I do give praise where praise is due and rest assured that as soon as the service is 100% perfect at all times I will shut up moaning! Until that time though...

Fri 5 Dec 2008, 19:18

Well, £14.35 (which is what I pay at present) does seem good value for a cheap day return. And I thought we had established that the rush-hour restrictions for a return no longer apply.

Derek, I don't really understand why it's necessary to be quite SO negative about FGW. After all, if you really think the (endless!) coach journey is a good alternative, you are indeed free to take it.

I have plenty of problems with FGW, but it seems rather thankless not to also register the benefits.

Fri 5 Dec 2008, 12:38

Chris - you paint a very bleak picture of rail travel today. You make the train sound like an elite form of transport for the rich only, like the early days of air travel when only the wealthiest in our society could afford to fly. I had hoped we had…

Long post - click to read full text

Thu 4 Dec 2008, 13:07

According to the National Rail Season Ticket checker on the National Rail website, the annual ticket from Charlbury to Paddington (not the Travelcard) currently costs nearer £5000 - £4940 to be precise.

An annual season ticket is calculated by allowing for 5-day / week travel, with a 4 week hoiliday…

Long post - click to read full text

Wed 3 Dec 2008, 11:49

Chris: if you go back and read my posting again, you will see that I wasn't suggesting that FGW attempt to control usage by running a substandard service. What I actually said was that that was an indirect consequence. It is the ticket restrictions that I feel directly control usage.

…

Long post - click to read full text

Wed 3 Dec 2008, 10:49

Chris - a very interesting posting and I generally agree with what you say, but I would pick you up on the "stupidly-cheap (compared to their season ticket price)" comment. A £4,000 season ticket, valid on any train, works out at about £16/£17 for each day travelled. An off-peak return from Charlbury to London, however, is £21.70. It's the season tickets that are cheap, not the turn-up-and-go ones.

Wed 3 Dec 2008, 10:04

In response to Derek's long piece....

Completely agree with your first para - and as has been explained here, is a consequence of FGW picking up a long-standing request by CLPG to tighten the Birmingham connections up. The timetable needed altering by getting the 0938's down previous journey to Worcester…

Long post - click to read full text

Wed 3 Dec 2008, 07:36

Well, I bought offpeak returns on the 0938, coming back on the 1721, with a Network Card several times in November. Explicitly told by the ticket office here that was fine: confirmed at Paddington and checked by the on-train inspector. That fare is shown as still valid on the National Rail site - which confirms both offpeak returns and offpeak London Travelcards are available.

Both Network Card and Senior Railcard reductions apply to fares bought on the 0938.

Tue 2 Dec 2008, 22:21

Writing on this forum on Monday 13 October in the thread Latest Commitments from FGW, John Stanley wrote this: "an Off Peak Day Travelcard [which is what I buy - DC] CANNOT be used on the 1721, 1751 and 1821 departures from Paddington." I don't know of any relaxation of this restriction in the interim Christine, but maybe I'm just ill-informed! Perhaps Chris Bates or John Stanley can enlighten us?

Tue 2 Dec 2008, 15:22

Derek, Are you sure the restrictions on rush hour travel still apply to those using a Network card? Last week I was told (to my amazement) that about 6 weeks previously this restriction had been abolished for those with a Senior Travel Card returning to a station beyond Oxford. What a shame that this welcome relaxation in rules has not been better publicised!

Tue 2 Dec 2008, 12:43

I stand by both of my previous comments.

If I want to go to Birmingham Chris then I accept that the new timetable probably makes things easier for me. However, in common with most Charlbury passengers, I tend to travel towards London far more often than I travel towards Birmingham…

Long post - click to read full text

Tue 2 Dec 2008, 08:48

THanks for the clarification, John (S).

Tue 2 Dec 2008, 00:41

Ah, sorry for the mixup re: Worcester Parkway.

Mon 1 Dec 2008, 23:22

Re Igors comment 27.11 what a spendid idea! Regarding cycle lanes with Igors ideas the new cemetary extention would be full in a month!!

Mon 1 Dec 2008, 20:02

Please do not blame the Cotswold Line Promotion Group for what is happening to the 0938. Chris Bates says that the CLPG has been keen on achieving better connections at Worcester for some time, This is true but this has absolutely nothing at all to do with the retiming of the 0938 to 1008. This change is caused by retiming the current 0851 Paddington to Hereford (Charlbury 1009) to 0821 (Charlbury 0939) and is to accommodate London Midland's revised hourly interval service between Birmingham, Worcester and Hereford. In fact, when the CLPG saw what was planned, it warned FGW of the likely unpopularity and has made several representations in an attempt to get it changed. FGW decided that it had to fit in with London Midland's plans and that the alternative of running the 0938 some 10 minutes later than now, which would have been necessary because of the single line from Ascott-under-Wychwood, was not possible due to the resultant retiming from Oxford impacting on at least 6 other services later in the journey. Hopefully, once double track in in place in the Charlbury area, FGW can be prevailed upon to restore the 0938 to London.

Richard Fairhurst mentions Worcester Parkway for which he says the CLPG has been campaigning. This is NOT TRUE. The CLPG has never shown any real enthusiasm for the project, preferring instead to upgrade Shrub Hill station, where a larger range of connectional possibilities could be possible.

Mon 1 Dec 2008, 10:51

Not convinced by the argument that "the CLPG have been campaigning for the Worcester connections for some time". If Network Rail built a new Worcester Parkway station (which the CLPG have also been campaigning for) but closed Shrub Hill at the same time, I doubt the same excuse would wash.

Mon 1 Dec 2008, 10:21

oh, longer trains aren't possible - there are no extra HST coaches that can be added as no seated coach spares exist.

There are a few buffet cars that could be converted, but at some high cost that we travellers don't want to pay for.

Mon 1 Dec 2008, 10:18

Derek wrote -

"So, in a nutshell: (i) we on the CL have to suffer so that passengers of other rail companies get a better service;"

Not quite - the connections from & onto FGW at Worcester are much improved, in & out of Birmingham services. However, this has been something that the Promotion Group have been keen on achieving for some time - you might aim complaints in their direction. To achieve these better connections, the timetable needed squewing by 30 minutes; and there was no way FGW would run two trains within an hour (they can't on the single line without leaving the opposite direction of travel without a service for a long time) - so you've now 90 minutes between trains.

Personally, I'd have thought that the London direction carried more passengers & thus should take priority in terms of connections and usefulness of timings.....

FGW say that this new timetable is fixed now until the redoubling is complete and a new timetable introduced in May 2010.

Derek also wrote -
"and (ii) FGW are actively discouraging passengers from using certain of their trains so as to avoid overcrowding! Presumably the introduction of longer trains was not a measure that was discussed."

Sorry, I don't agree - to be actively doing anything means changing (fare rules in this case) - something they have refused to do in this case (by allowing off-peak tickets on the earlier train). AS this 0835 is already busy, allowing off-peak tickets would reduce the fares total taken for this train. FGW changed this later train on a request - to then be asked to reduce fares as well on an earlier train would have not been expected.

Thu 27 Nov 2008, 15:59

This issue seems to underline the broader problem that was pointed out to me by a member of FGW staff while waiting for a late southbound train. In a nutshell FGW bought into what they thought at the time would be a rather profitable luxury service. Because of changing demographics and the exodus from southern cities to rural areas over the past few years, the Hereford line has become more of a commuter, utility train line, relied on by commuters to get back and forth from work.

It seems to me until the business model is changed and those responsible for coordinating the transport understand that the needs of the passengers have changed, it will continue to be a problematic service.

Thu 27 Nov 2008, 11:31

Yes, Dave is right and yes Roger it was extensively discussed on this forum weeks ago! I wrote to Andrew Haines (COO of FGW) to complain about the abolition of the 09.38 and received a reply recently from his office. I won't quote it all but salient passages are as follows:

"As this route is a single line, there will always need to be a compromise in terms of passenger service and performance."

"This [the new times] will make the service compatible with West and London Midland services, which also turn up at around the same time. It is also compatible with the London Midland plan to run an hourly Birmingham-Worcester-Hereford service pattern, which will provide good connections to and from First Great Western services."

"I note your comments regarding the easement of ticket restrictions on our 08:35 service and this has been discussed at length. However, allowing this would encourage more customers to travel on an already well-loaded service and crowding is something that we want to avoid at all costs."

So, in a nutshell: (i) we on the CL have to suffer so that passengers of other rail companies get a better service; and (ii) FGW are actively discouraging passengers from using certain of their trains so as to avoid overcrowding! Presumably the introduction of longer trains was not a measure that was discussed.

Thu 27 Nov 2008, 09:39

Really? But if you take a child to London in the holidays you need to go on that train to ensure a reasonable length of time there before getting a train back. Staying for the later trains isn't an option for everyone. We've used that train (or tried to!)for years to get to London

Thu 27 Nov 2008, 09:17

This effectively doubles the cost of getting to Oxford to work in the morning from Charlbury on the train.
Guess it's time to move.

Wed 26 Nov 2008, 22:28

Sorry Dave ,only joking.

Wed 26 Nov 2008, 22:27

Well its no wonder you can't catch the trains ,this has been talked about on here for weeks .

Wed 26 Nov 2008, 21:28

Sorry, forgot to add the main point of the post: If you want to go to London on a cheap day return during the week, you'll be there just in time for lunch. Not a great service eh?

Wed 26 Nov 2008, 21:24

This morning, a notice was posted at the station showing different times of trains from December 14th. Most travellers know there's a train to Oxford and London about 7:30 (7:24), another about 8:30 (8:33) and another about 9:30 (9:38). The third of these has disappeared from the timetable and seems to have been replaced by one at 10:08. The number of trains/day seems to remain the same, but this now means that if you don't get the 08:35, the earliest you'll be in London is 11:28 (using a cheap day return).