Cutting of road side verges- Financial v Safety ?

Mon 26 Jun 2023, 07:50

The time of year again where visibility is poor and road signs / warnings are obscured. 

Sat 8 Oct 2022, 09:19

Grass verges now cut MUCH safer, but 3 months late - suggesting it was a financial constraint ? 

Mon 29 Aug 2022, 14:21

There was a good article about the number of times verges should be cut, and how, in The New Scientist 2, 3 weeks back. All about how important the hundreds of square miles in road verges are - or could be - to species SURVIVAL and diversity. 

It gave some optimal cutting regimes. I was going to copy and paste it but because was reading the subscription magazine and the schedule was in a "drop=out box" I couldn't seem to be able to paste it as plain text into the Charlbury.info page. It answered almost every question and could someone with a sub better than me at digit fiddling look it up and put it in for our edification?

Sun 28 Aug 2022, 14:26

I would alter the heading to this thread to add in biodiversity as a third factor.  But there is also the issue of a mix of responsibilities for cutting verges within and near Charlbury.  The town council has received complaints about the failure to cut grass when it is not our responsibility.  We could decide as a council to take over the cutting of all grass within our area, but it would mean raising the precept by a very small amount.  It would give us better control.  Thoughts?

Sat 27 Aug 2022, 16:26 (last edited on Sat 27 Aug 2022, 16:27)

 Verges being cut along the Finstock Road today ! Much Better visibility- lots of cyclists- easier to see 

Sun 7 Aug 2022, 08:21

Likewise, yesterday people were walking from Charlbury towards Spelsbury and assume the camp site, with grocery bags, along the road. 3 groups noted, and would say that it would be classed as a near miss and an accident waiting to happen. Worrying. 

Sat 6 Aug 2022, 16:59

OK I am raising this again because I have witnessed several near misses in the last few days with pedestrians wandering along the road from Charlbury to Finstock - obviously related to the Wilderness festival. 

The verges have still not been cut and there is really poor visibility round bends. The pedestrians are obviously not local and have no idea that it is a really bad road to be walking on - or that they could get through the park instead. 

At least if the verges had been cut they would be more visible….

Tue 26 Jul 2022, 21:01

Nick ( and all - as not a 1-1 being part of the forum rules ) my journey into Oxford today from 8.20 at Bladon roundabout, i counted 5 people riding before we got to wolvercote roundabout, all of them riding on the opposite side of the direction in to Oxford ,  one on the left hand side - must be a reason as had assumed they would be on the left hand path . Better surface ? 

Tue 26 Jul 2022, 07:59 (last edited on Tue 26 Jul 2022, 08:00)

Mark other areas do things differently, driving to my Gloucestershire garden is much safer as there are strips cut along the edge of the verges with short grass at the road side and longer at the back nearer the hedge. Safer for everyone, including walkers who can easily see to step into the verge on narrow roads. 

Mon 25 Jul 2022, 22:36

I’m sure there is a peak time for cycling , and as a young Woodstock lad would use it to see my school friends from Begbroke and Yarnton , but would cycle on the carriageway due to the debris and broken glass . Will be travelling that route over the next 2 mornings and will do a tally and report back . In the passenger seat tomorrow. My times of travel vary from anywhere between 6.00 am and 9.30 am when heading towards Oxford. - 2 friends have been hospitalised in the past 48 hrs with cycle related incidents, one in Manchester-  token arm and collar bone , putting his water bottle into the cage , the other on the A 40 from Wolvercote roundabout past the BMW Garage where the new housing is being built . Both incidents human error - both were wearing cycle helmets thankfully, Dangerous stuff this cycling- best to give the maximum possible view - that cut verge will assist ! 👍

Mon 25 Jul 2022, 09:45

Mark, The cycle path from Bladon roundabout to Pear Tree roundabout is pretty heavily used - I see loads of fellow cyclists on there on my daily commute. You probably couldn't see from the road us before the grass was cut!

Sat 23 Jul 2022, 20:37

Do other districts have a different set of criteria for maintaining the verges , or is biodiversity just a regional explanation? 

Mon 18 Jul 2022, 14:03 (last edited on Sat 23 Jul 2022, 20:31)

Conflicting messages - safety in second place but interestingly, the cycle path from Bladon roundabout to the Peartree roundabout ( is which is hardly ever used or had cycles on many cycles on it ) has had the grass verges cut by 1 m either side ! 

Sun 17 Jul 2022, 17:07

I reported the footpaths last week in fix my street but just got an email the next day closing the issue and telling me to go directly to WODC. 

Sun 17 Jul 2022, 16:46

Unless it has been cleared in the last couple of days, anyone using the permissive path from the cemetery to Pound Hill to access the footpath by Water Lane will find their visibility totally obscured by vegetation when checking for oncoming traffic. 

Mon 4 Jul 2022, 08:18

I agree - a large number of road signs are obscured - as are cyclists. Needs cutting now - and should preferably have been done weeks ago….

Sun 3 Jul 2022, 23:54

Nearly a year later- the same problem persists - poor visibility and unmanaged maintenance or cutting , higher than the speed signs .

not as many cyclist this year - where have they all gone ?

Sun 25 Jul 2021, 21:19

The road between Charlbury and Chippy had been done all the way, a metre cut back on either side, when I drove up there on Saturday. Much better view, especially round the bad bends just north of Spelsbury..

Sun 25 Jul 2021, 19:06

Driving  to Witney yesterday, it was shocking how high the verges were - so high that the majority of 50 signs were partially or wholly obscured.  Not that I am in favour of speeding, but anyone penalised could easily argue that they were unaware.

Worse was the sharp bend and 50 signs on the approach to Fawler Mill - how many times have we seen vehicles crash there - and now there is no visible warning.

Sun 25 Jul 2021, 17:43

Another accident happened on the junction B 4437 / turning with the A361 towards Charlbury- VERY restrictive vision due to the uncut grass verges . Police signs are appealing for information . 

Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:40

The Hanborough–Bladon roadside path, the subject of the Oxford Mail article that Mark linked to earlier in this thread, has been cut back very effectively too.

(Really the issue there is that the path is too narrow anyway – people cycle along it because the A4095 is lethal, and the lack of paths through Blenheim means there’s no alternative route. Getting a proper cycle path along there is, without a doubt, the most needed improvement for cycling in West Oxfordshire. More than a little cheeky for the councillor for Hanborough to pose outraged in the Oxford Mail, when as part of the former administration he had many years to do something about that path!)

Wed 21 Jul 2021, 09:49

Whether it's as a result of this thread, or mere coincidence, some action seems to have been taken locally this week. Many thanks to those responsible for making this happen, improving visibility and safety on our roads.

Sun 18 Jul 2021, 08:55 (last edited on Sun 18 Jul 2021, 09:19)

Visibility will become ever more important as we are forced into electric vehicles.  Pedestrians / cyclists / riders cannot hear them (or smell them!) so the only sense left for self-preservation is vision.

Sat 17 Jul 2021, 17:53

Living at the top of Woodstock Road just within the 30MPH zone, I can confirm that: 

1 Traffic has noticeably increased in volume, particularly this year. 

2 This increase is in part accounted for by a certain type of car/driver who will not slow down. We hear the cars approaching and can tell that many pass the 30 MPH limit without slowing down. These are possibly Clarkson fans on their way to see Diddly Squat Farm Shop at Chadlington. 

Example: My husband had a near collision a week ago pulling out of a single track road just beyond Kindswood onto the B4437. Vision was poor due to uncut verges. Luckily he was pulling out very cautiously when  a car built for speed literally whizzed past at speed, a great speed - he estimates 80MPH++. 

3 The only way likely to slow things on Woodstock Road is an actual physical barrier - a build out. 

4 Re the verges - Victoria mentions narrowing of the road affecting cyclists and pedestrians. It also affects many drivers. With the verges falling over the roadside, many drivers  are psychologically driving further into the middle of the road than normal. So another safety issue - a possible collision. 

5 Michael - I agree - adjoining counties have got a much better management scheme - cutting about a metre of verge to improve vision for road users but leaving wherever possible natural growth. We saw a wonderful example a couple of weeks ago when following a detour from just before Tewkesbury towards Pershore. There was a managed verge and behind the metre that had been mown the most wonderful display of Ox Eye daisies for about half a mile.  

So we have 2 issues - what is the best verge management to balance the different competing needs and interests, where relevant factors are not only safety and finance but also environmental,  and also how do we manage the speed of cars, particularly within the speed limit areas. 

Sat 17 Jul 2021, 17:20

We drove back from Glouctershire today all the verges in Gloucestershire are cut back by about a metre so most of it remains. As soon as we came through the Oxfordshire sign this stopped!!

Sat 17 Jul 2021, 17:02

Not to detract from the original post - Financial V Safety - no one has been able to comment as to if this is a cost cutting exercise or not . The over grown verges are all along the road towards Woodstock, not just contained in the 30 / 20 mph zones in Charlbury.

responsible land owners and farmers are cutting the verges at entrances and abutting land , as they have for many years. 

I do not believe that any management or Maintainance has been undertaken this year , from my regular journeys along these roads, where as in previous years it has been noticed.

Therefore one would conclude it’s a financial decision as it’s not safer 

Sat 17 Jul 2021, 16:14

One benefit of the overgrown hedges on Woodstock Road in particular, is that they act as something of a deterrent to speeding traffic. Most of the traffic using that road is exceeding the 30 mph limit, with that coming down the hill often travelling at eye-watering speeds. There can be little doubt that widening the road by cutting back the vegetation would bring even higher speeds and make things more dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists.

When the town council has the meeting with OCC I hope they will take such unintended benefits in to consideration, prevent a policy of 'slash and burn' and ensure we end up with safer roads. 

Sat 17 Jul 2021, 13:28

The Woodstock Road is very dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists with overgrown hedges and verges reducing visibility and making the road too narrow for vehicles to pass on both sides when anyone is walking. There is constant speeding as cars approach or leave Charlbury, putting those of us who live here at great risk if we want to walk into town or elsewhere. Nothing has been done about this for years.

Fri 16 Jul 2021, 21:18

Liz... working group? just get them cut before there are bad accidents related to this. 

Oxfordshire roads are terrible pot holes and services very badly made good why as a county that pays loads of tax do we have to put up with rubbish roads? go up north or wales the roads are silky

Thu 15 Jul 2021, 18:33

The vetch and poppies on the nine acres lane corner is a deliberate sowing of wildflower seed. Either by gigaclear (as it's replicated in front of most of the work they've done on verges where there is also a box) or by a charlbury resident. The density is too great for it be natural and as far as I'm aware tufted vetch doesn't grow in any of our nature reserves. 

Thu 15 Jul 2021, 11:56

I think that with the very wet weather the verges have grown much more than usual, not that they aren't being managed

Thu 15 Jul 2021, 11:44

As I now have use of a mobility scooter I take a pair of secateurs with me so that I can cut back brambles and branches that hamper my progress rather than fall off into the road.  The narrow pathways and pavements are quite a hazard, not to mention the uneven surfaces and potholes.

Thu 15 Jul 2021, 10:47

This is the first year that I can recall the verge not being cut or maintained - obviously a reason ? Hence the title of the post 

Wed 14 Jul 2021, 14:20 (last edited on Wed 14 Jul 2021, 14:21)

We have just set up a working group to look at verge cutting, so will report back in due course.

Wed 14 Jul 2021, 09:55 (last edited on Thu 15 Jul 2021, 09:29)

If OCC is serious about road safety, cutting and maintaining a 1 metre wide strip along all A and B roads and others (wherever possible) ought to be a priority. This would massively increase visibility (especially as regards cyclists) and provide somewhere for  pedestrians to step off the road where there (often) is no footpath. Road safety isn't all about speeding. Junctions along the B4022 between Enstone and Charlbury are a case in point. What's the cost of grass cutting compared with one road traffic accident? Police, Ambulance, NHS, sick pay etc. Environmental impact of cutting a 1 metre wide strip is negligible as that usually still leaves a large area for fauna and flora. OCC's record on highways under Hudspeth was pathetic, let's hope it's better with Leffman at the helm.

Potholes? Don't get me started. Oxfordshire's roads are a disgrace, adjacent counties manage much better. This week I spoke to a delivery driver acquaintance and keen cyclist who told me that due to the state of Oxfordshire's roads he has given up road cycling and sold his carbon fibre road bike in favour of a gravel / off-road bike.

Tue 13 Jul 2021, 10:16

About 12.30, aprox. 2 miles out of Charlbury 3 riders , no details other than a quiet electric car , a scratch and a bruised ego - no further details obtained

All were safe and went on their way

Tue 13 Jul 2021, 09:54

Can you supply details of the accident? I hadn't heard about that. When? Where? Anybody hurt?

Mon 12 Jul 2021, 20:55

Well done to the Cotswold voluntary Wardens  ! To put the original post back on track - and the evidence of the cycle event passing through Charlbury on Sunday , and the accident on the Woodstock road between an electric ( silent ) car and a small group of cyclists- I think that safety should be the first consideration ? Cut the Verges :

Mon 12 Jul 2021, 14:38

Thank you, Simon.  That is good news.

Mon 12 Jul 2021, 13:37

The verges on either side of the footpath exit on to the bottom of Pound Hill have now been cut back, courtesy of the Cotswold Voluntary Wardens, so you can now see better both ways.

Sat 10 Jul 2021, 21:32 (last edited on Sat 10 Jul 2021, 23:18)

The Oxford Mail article is unintentionally hilarious once you are aware that the rentaquote councillor quoted was responsible for cutting of verges until May when his party lost control.

Please can people report areas needing cutting via the Town Council, as Claire has highlighted, or if on a main road use fixmystreet.com or via Cllr Leffman.  Verges are the responsibility of the County Council as highway authority.  There is a very valid debate about the balance between safety and environmental harm; this year it has been affected by huge amounts of rain that led to certain plants growing from nowhere (including plants that couldn’t stand last year’s dry heat).

The Town Council has a site visit with OCC about some markings later this month, so again, please flag areas needing painting.

Sat 10 Jul 2021, 19:22

We have cut back weeds and out of control growth that was preventing the use of the the path to ares the station on Dyers Hill . 

Sat 10 Jul 2021, 19:07

I think a lot of these areas are beyond cutting back.  The verges have “slipped” onto the footpaths and roads narrowing them.  Work carried out by MKJ hasn’t helped in some areas as they have disturbed compacted grass verges allowing them to move.  The article in the Witney Gazette surely cannot be correct that verges are only cut once a year?

Sat 10 Jul 2021, 16:36

Anyone using the permissive path from the cemetery on to Pound Hill to reach the footpath by Water Lane will find their visibility is totally obscured by vegetation when checking for oncoming traffic. Likewise cyclists and car drivers driving in to Charlbury from the Spelsbury Road have no chance of spotting walkers crossing at that point.  It is dangerous. 

Sat 10 Jul 2021, 16:22

By chance, this has been published in todays Oxford Mail :

https://www.witneygazette.co.uk/news/19432321.oxfordshire-councillor-blasts-council-unsafe-grass-verges/

Sat 10 Jul 2021, 15:35 (last edited on Sat 10 Jul 2021, 16:19)

Claire I've mentioned this (plus the fact that at one time I saw an elderly lady cutting the grass with scissors to improve visibility at the top of Dancers Hill/the Slade) to the council for a few years now, even when I was on the council, and nothing gets done. So I am continuing to assume environmentalism trumps access/safety for residents. 

I'll add to this that IMO having mentioned it as an accessibility problem once, I shouldn't need to mention it again, as it's a given that the vegetation will grow and need cutting back every year. 

Sat 10 Jul 2021, 12:26

The town council is not generally responsible for verges, that's either Oxfordshire County Council or the private landowners. That's not to say that we can't help though. You can email us on charlburytc@btinternet.com

We would much prefer that you contacted us about an issue rather than assume that we are "ageist" and "ableist". You might be pleasantly surprised to find we are quite nice, helpful people.

Sat 10 Jul 2021, 11:48

A number of footpaths around Charlbury are very overgrown.  I have taken to walking on the road in areas which surely has to be an unnecessary risk for me and my dogs?  The footpath on Dancers Hill for example is approximately 3/4 covered by overhanging grass, and when wet, is very unpleasant to walk down.  Who’s responsible for keeping this cut back as it certainly not being done. 

Sat 10 Jul 2021, 11:09

I was referring to the roads generally in and out of Charlbury, but the pavements look messy , reducing usable widths and encouraging dog fouling - a long and unresolved Charlbury issue.

Visibility of oncoming traffic is very restricted at the bottom of 9 acres lane ( opposite New Barn Garage ) where the sudden increase of long term parking has restarted . A bottle neck at the best of times, but the uncut verges compound the problem with reduced visibility. 

The new speed restriction signs and general signage  are not clear and obscured.

Sat 10 Jul 2021, 10:48

It's environmentally friendly and that trumps anything else. But as I've said before, it's not person friendly particularly if you are elderly, move slowly, can't hear so well and have to (for example) cross nine acres lane to get into mine acres close. Presumably the town council being relatively young and fit has missed this, or maybe it's another example of ableist ageism. 

And yes, you probably were referring to roads in general, but starting in charlbury would be good

Sat 10 Jul 2021, 10:18

The lack of grass cutting reduces road visibility and obscures road signs. With increasing numbers of cyclist on the roads - often in pack and side by side, a potential accident ?

Road markings at junctions are in need of replacing as difficult to see, especially in wet weather.

Budget cuts ???