Speeding Traffic

Mon 26 Apr 2021, 14:22

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone obeyed the signs?  But the evidence is that without some form of traffic calming people simply will not obey a 20mph limit on a road like The Slade.  They don't respect the 30mph signs according to the data collected by the Speedwatch team, who do a great job, but cannot enforce the speed limit on their own.  Only the police can do that.

Mon 26 Apr 2021, 14:00

So in summary, if cars are already fairly slow on certain roads, then it is OK to add a 20mph *limit*, but if cars are faster,  extra measures are deemed necessary so we have to have a 20mph *zone* with traffic calming measures. That does seem counter-intuitive - surely adding a 20mph limit even without extra traffic calming would still be a help on roads like the Slade. If the signs say 20mph surely cars ought to follow that - and can be charged for speeding if they don't. (I assume this is legislation out of the town council's control, by the way, so not blaming them - I'm just baffled by the way the rules work)

Mon 26 Apr 2021, 09:44 (last edited on Mon 26 Apr 2021, 09:45)

I went to look up what traffic calming measures comprise and discovered there's a difference between a "20mph limit" and a "20mph zone". Charlbury has a 20mph limit.

The following is quote from ROSPA:

20mph limits are most appropriate for roads where average speeds are already low, and the guidance suggests below 24mph. The layout and use of the road must also give the clear impression that a 20mph speed or below is the most appropriate.

If there's a road where cars are regularly exceeding 30mph, it would appear the criteria above aren't met*. In those places, the only option is a 20mph zone.

20mph zones require traffic calming measures to be added (chicanes, speed bumps, etc). You need these every 100m (or less). I can't find it again now but I read one source suggesting the cost of 20mph zones can be fifty times more expensive that 20mph limits because of the need for physical construction vs just repeater signs.

*Residents may feel it's obvious that 20mph is the most appropriate; however, people passing through clearly feel differently.

Mon 26 Apr 2021, 09:07

Claire thanks for reminding us of the time and effort by our councilors over the years to achieve the traffic speed controls that have been achieved.  This forum has been able to contribute to the debate all along the line.

Mon 26 Apr 2021, 08:01

There's an interesting thread on this from June 2020 where Liz Leffman said the following about the 20mph zone and the Slade:

"To be able to include the whole of The Slade in the 20mph zone on a permanent basis (not just outside the school where it applies at certain times of the day), we would need to have traffic calming measures in place. That is because the average speed while generally within the 30mph limit, is not low enough to be able to be sure that people could stick to a 20 mph limit, especially on the dip. The average speed in the town centre when it was monitored for several weeks before the decision to go ahead was 24mph, low enough to justify dropping the legal limit to 20. This all follows national regulations. The 20 mph zone has been funded with money from the development in Pooles Lane, and we did not have enough to include all of The Slade and Nine Acres Lane, and the County was not able to fund it. It remains a long term ambition to make the whole of Charlbury a 20 mph zone."

Sun 25 Apr 2021, 23:03

Can’t we have 20mph throughout Charlbury?  The only roads you can really go fast is the Slade and Woodstock Road.  These should be 20mph while in Charlbury regardless of the number of the road 

Sun 25 Apr 2021, 22:41

If it is stated "it was more of a judgement call" and "it'd be difficult to reach 30mph", then I'm questioning that judgement. Yes it was a direct question, though as a resident I am entitled to challenge statements made if factually incorrect. The reality is the majority of cars will exceed 20 mph and this is where the speed should be limited, not 30 mph as it currently. In fact some regularly exceed 30 mph. There are far more children around the residential roads, often on their way to the skate & play park in the case of around Ticknell Piece and the school, though it is similar on all residential estates.

It's interesting to read the Town Council election leaflets saying how the candidates represent ALL residents in Charlbury. Let's hope in the future the Council Tax of all can benefit all Charlbury residents equally and the current zones are just the first round of making our residential roads safer, so well done on the first step, now keep it going.

Sun 25 Apr 2021, 22:25

"And before the response comes about the 20mph zone at the school when lights flashing, this is incredibly difficult if not impossible to enforce legally." 

WHY?

Sun 25 Apr 2021, 17:46

A little bit harsh I think Hamish. You say that "the Town Council lacked the judgement required to make such decisions".

In fact the Town Council parleyed hard with OCC Highways over the extent of the          20 mph zone. It needs to be borne in mind that there was a considerable cost to the Council Tax payers of the town for the new signage and road markings.

We'd all love the perfect solution in every case but, as with most Town and Parish Councils, you are sometimes damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Sat 24 Apr 2021, 13:37 (last edited on Sat 24 Apr 2021, 13:37)

Sorry, but it's a weak argument to claim 30mph is only possible by reckless, sign ignoring motorists,  on roads such as Ticknell Piece Road, as you could say the same for many of the roads in central Charlbury. The fact is drivers do travel this fast and this is currently legal.

It is plain ridiculous that the 20mph zone stops short of the school and doesn't include all residential streets. And before the response comes about the 20mph zone at the school when lights flashing, this is incredibly difficult if not impossible to enforce legally. 

A great number of cars travel at up to 30 (or more) on residential streets and around the school crossing area (where people cross enroute to their houses or the park), and the same residential streets where children more frequently play than say the Enstone Road. 

It would appear that the Town Council lacked the judgement required to make such decisions? 

(For the record I'm not disagreeing with 20mph especially on Enstone Rd crossroads!).

Thu 22 Apr 2021, 10:46

Certainly not forgotten. Essentially the 20mph scheme covers those roads where Oxfordshire County Council (as the highway authority) would allow a 20mph limit, and where we thought it would make a difference.

OCC wouldn’t agree to a 20mph limit on the B roads (except for around the Enstone Road crossroads where we managed to push that through because of concerns for pedestrians crossing the road). Pretty much everywhere else is included apart from Hughes Close/Sturt Close, Ticknell Piece, and as you say Lees Heights.

Hughes/Sturt arguably doesn’t need one as it already has physical traffic calming from the Home Zone scheme, which is more effective than signs. With Ticknell and Lees Heights it was more of a judgement call, but as they’re both cul-de-sacs where it’d be difficult to reach 30mph and the great majority of the traffic is residents, we took the view that the clutter and cost of extra signs would make no difference – basically anyone who’s determined to reach 30mph on Ticknell Piece is already irresponsible enough that they’re not going to take any notice of signs.

I’d hope that in the medium term, either OCC policy will change or funding will be found for traffic calming, so that there can be a 20mph limit on the Slade which would also apply to the roads off it.

Wed 21 Apr 2021, 23:25

I've noticed that some of the residential roads are now a 20mph limit but others remain at 30. Have some been forgotten? It can't be because some are a cul-de-sac as Woodfield Rd is 20 but Lees Heights is 30.

Mon 19 Apr 2021, 19:49 (last edited on Tue 20 Apr 2021, 11:20)

Charlbury CSW will continue to collect data around the town to highlight drivers speeds.  We hope that others will support us in pressing for speed & safety improvements.  We'll check whether TVP will allow publicising registration numbers & report back here.

Let us know if you want to be involved.  Charlburycsw@gmail.com

Mon 19 Apr 2021, 16:04

Can you publish the registration plates on here?  I wonder if “naming and shaming” these drivers may slow them down?

Mon 19 Apr 2021, 11:29

Speeds of double the legal maximum are frequent on Enstone Road/Banbury Hill in both directions.  The 20mph limit has had some effect, but until there is some enforcement, habits will be difficult to change.

I saw two vehicles doing well over 40mph when the sign was out late last week.

Mon 19 Apr 2021, 11:02

Apparently Charlbury Speedwatrch have recorded and reported an alarming speed of 63 mph on Enstone Road at 8.32 am on Thursday 31st March. Note the date; the last day of the school term. Note the time; this was not the middle of the night when nobody was about but at a time when people will have been around and the kids will have been going to school.

What's more, this happened in the 20 mph zone - outrageous!