The Bell

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 16:51

Hi All,

Although I'm afraid I cannot shed much light on the current situation concerning The Bell and it's Future with Greene King (or not). They are currently seeking new Tennant's to take over the lease, and as far as I am aware no sales of the building or planning applications are in the pipe line. 

Totally agree that any re development of The Bell would be a tragedy and would be so lovely to see it back where it was pre mid nineties.

This is an awful time for hospitality and as a long standing member of staff at The Bell, I am concerned for the place and the trade in general and of course for the job I have been doing for many years. I ask please to try and avoid too much speculation for the time being, this is simply as it stands at the moment a six year lease coming to an end and a new one being sought by somebody new. If our current situation will allow such things to happen (given tier 4 announcement today )

Please just stay mindful to this & have a merry Christmas all.

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 16:39

Yes, it is in the conservation area.

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 15:48 (last edited on Wed 23 Dec 2020, 15:48)

Surely The Bell - and its garden too - is in the area of Charlbury that is protected from demolition and re-development? If not, then it should be.

And I am sure that - if it came to it - there would be a lot of support for a local buyout of The Bell. Even though it is owned by Greene King, those that have run it over the last few years have mostly run it in a *good* way, catering for the locals, as well as casting their net further, as they surely must. This for me is in contrast to the other "restaurant" in the vicinity, which I do not use.

Forewarned is forearmed, as they say. Let us keep a careful eye on things...

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 14:58

Until they have put in a planning application, it probably won't be possible to find out what they are up to, as they are pretty unlikely to tell us! But we can pre-empt them by applying for ACV status, and if a planning application is submitted, we can all make our views known to the planning officer.

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 14:38

Greene King does not discuss the pub side of the business - I know the CAMRA brewery liaison officer with them, and have had to ask the question regarding numerous pubs they have sold off.

On which subject......  their reputation precedes them around here, as Finstock, Combe, Enstone, Freeland, Long Hanborough, Tackley, Milton-under-Wychwood, Wootton and a bunch of places I’ve forgotten have found out when they’ve found their local closed and up for sale.

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 14:20

Gareth I find myself in total agreement with you!

I wonder if we should pre-empt the situation by approaching Green King to see what their intentions are. 

Liz you know more about the politics of this kind of situation?

I suspect there would be support in Charlbury for returning the Bell to the place it was 25 years ago

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 14:06

I’ve double checked and the source Steve quoted is totally wrong (and Liz is right).  There are dozens of premises such as The Bell or Bull with ACV status.

The legislation excludes the residential parts, but the bar, restaurant areas, beer garden and car park, not to mention function rooms, which form the community value, can and should be protected.

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 13:45

I campaigned long and hard to keep the Bull from becoming houses and worked with the Town Council to get it registered as an ACV.  I can see no reason why we should not be able to get a similar registration for The Bell.  The Bull had rooms and private accommodation when it was registered so I think the Bell would qualify.  But whether it is registered as an ACV or not, the new local plan in conjunction with the neighbourhood plan would make change of use possible only if they could prove that the houses are needed, which given that the number of houses in the local plan for the Charlbury/Burford sub area have already been built, is very unlikely

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 13:32

"I can't recall if the local plan declared it in any way." The garden behind The Bell was one of the proposed green spaces to be protected.

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 13:28 (last edited on Wed 23 Dec 2020, 13:36)

Steve - for starters, the Bell is being operated under a tenancy.  See the links posted here about the lease.

Secondly, there are cases of licensed premises including accommodation being granted ACV status - you may be aware of a place called the Bull in Charlbury, for one (though the status may now have lapsed).

The legislation specifically doesn’t cover residential ancillary accommodation: having been involved with the successful ACV registrations of a number of premises, I have worked around that.  In one case, the licensee’s accommodation above the pub was sold off even though the only access was through the bar.  
So when is a hotel not a hotel?  The answer is: it’s far from being as clear cut as you make out.

(Re the White Horse - and I am a shareholder - I gather that the remaining offer is to ensure the purchase plus refurbishment can all be completed without having to take out a loan)

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 13:01 (last edited on Wed 23 Dec 2020, 13:01)

The appeal for more shareholders to buy the White Horse keeps re-appearing on the Charlbury Facebook group, but I think it's a a final push effort. Close, but not quite there.

As far as the Bell is concerned, developers will most certainly have their eyes on that very valuable bit of land behind the place. That would be very valuable. I can't recall if the local plan declared it in any way.

In any event, there are quite a few planning and change of use issues involved, especially in such a central location.

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 13:00

Re: The White Horse, there was a thread on that very topic just recently. Seems like they will make a go of it.

https://www.backthewhitehorse.com/

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 12:37

Steve is right.  ACV is not an option.

If I recall correctly The White Horse at Stonesfield gained that status.  Does anyone know the current state of play with it?

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 12:31

Greene King have closed many pubs and restaurants since the pandemic, according to news reports and a few of theirs are up for lease in the area. The pub they owned in Bladon also closed but was bought and saved by the community this summer. Would an ACV designation be a wise move?

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 12:29

I can almost smell the property developers gathering.  Greene King get a decent pay off, and the developers make a fortune from building a new estate in a prime location.

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 12:26 (last edited on Wed 23 Dec 2020, 12:56)

Given an ACV cannot be placed on a hotel then that's not even an option.

https://mycommunity.org.uk/what-are-assets-of-community-value-acv

Also, it's a bit misleading to infer Green King only run pub tenancies. They operate a large number of hotels too.

Whether Green King is the right operator is another matter, but one thing is for sure, the ACV route is not an option.

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 12:04

The idea that a hotel such as The Bell can operate on a tied pubco tenancy is risible.  While (as Tom Kerridge made clear in his excellent BBC2 programme recently) it is possible to operate with a business model that minimises the leeching of turnover at inflated prices back to the licensee, the investment needed does not stack up against the five year tenancy available.

The Bell needs a freehold owner to take it on and give it some TLC.

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 11:45

Quick search on the GK website: https://www.greenekingpubs.co.uk/pub-to-let/bell-charlbury

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 11:23

So does this mean Greene King are still going to be involved?

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 11:15

Andrew is correct.  See http://protectpubs.org.uk/protection-tools/acv/ for more.

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 10:49

Alcohol consumed by volume. (Asset of community value.)

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 10:29

Apple cider vinegar?

Wed 23 Dec 2020, 07:44

Acquisition by Greene King was always going to be bad news for The Bell and it should have already had an ACV slapped on it.  The Town Council should do so as soon as possible.

Tue 22 Dec 2020, 23:21

It’s up for lease at the moment: https://www.findmypub.com/properties/view/19480

No planning application has come into the Town Council (we get notified by WODC as a matter of course) and I can’t see one on the WODC website either.

Tue 22 Dec 2020, 21:17 (last edited on Tue 22 Dec 2020, 21:17)

Does anyone know what is happening to the Bell? there are rumours circulating that Greene King have sold and that there is an application in with WODC for change of use. If this is true, the community needs to react in the same way as it did when The Bull applied for the same thing under the previous owners. It would be good to know the real situation