Is gigaclear worth it?

Thu 8 Oct 2020, 19:00

Today we returned from an 8 day break away taken, in part, to escape the horrendous roadworks carried out for the past few months (OCC day and night for 2 weeks. then weeks of gigaclear).  

Peace at last! Whilst away.

Upon our return we found that we couldn't park near our house to unload, and gigaclear had punctured a gas main. Today.  Don't they have charts of where cables and pipes are?  Don't they have instruments to detect underground cabling?  I bought one for a few pennies from B&Q years ago and it works perfectly if I feel inclined to drill into the masonry.  I appreciate that theirs might need to be of industrial strength, and so more expensive.

Amused, and alarmed, to see some of the operatives smoking cigarettes.

Does anybody have any idea when they are going to stop smashing up roads, pavements, cables, and pipes?  

It may be time for another break!

Thu 17 Sep 2020, 22:15 (last edited on Fri 18 Sep 2020, 16:00)

I'll be the first to admit I have not got the patience or inclination to read through all the posts, however to answer OP John Kearsey's question , the higher speeds are largely beneficial to businesses running multiple laptops and tablets and f amilies running next gen consoles (e.g. PS5), 4K TV and above, along with the multitude of wireless devices the typical family now uses.

For smaller households (1 or 2 people) who only only want to stream YouTube, use social media, watch catch up tv and send the odd email, the current phone line system is adequate.

As more and more families use more and more tech the more the demand on the system. Faster download speeds are always a benefit to people downloading big files. Don't fancy going back to the dial up modem, that's for sure!

For a small bit of inconvenience/noise we will at least have an alternative to BT etc and if Gigaclear doesn't live up to its expectations or claims we can always switch back at a later date.

The main advantage is to be futureproof. Otherwise we could get left behind - heaven forbid! 

Thu 17 Sep 2020, 19:09

I hope Gigaclear’s broadband is faster than their traffic lights…

Sat 5 Sep 2020, 21:15 (last edited on Sat 5 Sep 2020, 21:30)

Firstly the number of exchanges is entirely irrelevant to the line length on fibre to the cabinet services. What matters is the line length to the cabinet, so that whole bit about rationalising exchanges is irrelevant (it was on ADSL of course). Not that there was a lot of exchange…

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Sat 5 Sep 2020, 19:12

UK is way behind on FTTH fibre to the home. The previous BT CEO decided to invest in sports rights instead - go figure. The other problem is that BT in the 1980s decided to rationalise the number of exchanges, so the copper distance is longer than in many other countries.

Also - Steve discusses how to improve broadband speed in your home, great stuff. To add there is also Powerline - you send the broadband signal on your electric ringmain, by just buying an adapter from your favourite retailer. I have had this for probably 8 years and I get exactly the same speed in my office on the 2nd floor as I get on the main socket. I also send the tv signal from the Humax PVR to my office TV using this technology. TV signal on internet on electrical cabling? Yep. I can even watch a different channel than my wife, and also watch recordings of James Bond when she watches Gardeners world. Marvellous.

Sat 5 Sep 2020, 18:09

At the moment, if you want fibre-to-the-property rather than fibre-to-the-cabinet (where the last bit is by copper), then the two options in Charlbury will be either to used Gigaclear (or one of their resellers) when the installation is complete or to lease a private fibre connection from any of the…

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Fri 4 Sep 2020, 07:17

Steve/Colin - Am I reading the 'runes' correctly? If we want fibre connection it is Gigaclear or a very uncertain connection?

Thu 3 Sep 2020, 17:06

There is, of course, Openreach Fibre in Charlbury. It's what is used to connect to the green boxes that provide the VDSL and g.fast services dotted around town. The fibre runs back to the exchange at Whitney. As the Slade is a main road and there are VDSL cabinets, then that's going to be a main route. There will be some sort of fibre distribution box

However, that's a very different thing to running fibre to individual properties. That's involves a lot of disruption, and whether the state of the underground and above ground infrastructure that OpenReach has can be readily re-used without a lot of digging work is another matter. The school is a relatively new building, and it was probably built with a decent duct for phone lines.

As for Gigaclear, they do resell, but essentially it's a rebranded version and on a very thin margin. It isn't subject to regulated wholesale pricing and non-discriminatory behaviour as OpenReach is, so it's unlikely that you'll see the main ISPs reselling the product. It's also unclear what advantage there would be to local reselling apart from a world of pain in administration, billing and so on.

nb. in a past life, for a brief period, I knew the current boss of Openreach (Clive Selley). Back then, about 25+  years ago, he used to have a sense of humour; I doubt he does now as that's a tough job.

Thu 3 Sep 2020, 13:36 (last edited on Thu 3 Sep 2020, 13:37)

Hi Hugo,

I'm not sure what would be involved in the setting up a Charlbury fibre ISP, I guess it's just a  reseller with very little margin? I'm not adversed to getting involved in something like this however the things that put me off are the organisation costs like insurance and setting up companies and doing the accounts/ returns. By the time you have done the basic stuff you are about £1000 per year down ( insurance, limited company tax returns and domain names and hosting charges) not to mention the time administering and selling it.

Another interesting thing is when I was walking passing the top of Crawborough the other week Open Reach was putting in a  connection for the primary school and had the manhole cover open ( not far from the notice board but on the Slade). I chatted to the Open reach engineer and found out that the school was getting fibre via open reach  and that a fibre feed had been in that service hole for seven years! Did you know there was fibre on the Slade before gigaclear? I guess the BT infinity ZDSL fibre to the street, copper to the home needs this?

Thu 27 Aug 2020, 09:30 (last edited on Thu 27 Aug 2020, 09:30)

Hi @Gareth and @Andrew. Just to clarify, I offered The Phone Co-Op the opportunity to sell their services over the new fibre network back in 2015, as we were keen to have them on board as a local ISP. They were intent on doing so, but unfortunately Gigaclear's wholesale margins aren't particularly generous, now that they are the contract holder. I also met with Richard Tang (ex-CEO and now Chair of Zen) at that time and they were keen to become a provider on the network, but again the margins aren't currently sufficient to make it appealing. 

I'm almost tempted to start a new local community interest company ISP. Any takers?(!)

Tue 25 Aug 2020, 19:31 (last edited on Tue 25 Aug 2020, 19:34)

As Gigaclear has today churned up our drive in Ticknell Piece Road, we wonder what the latest advice is re signing once the work has been completed.

Nothing positive in comments below.  However, Hugo Pickering has been helpful and thanks.

We received a letter less than a week ago.  No time lost in arriving.

Fri 7 Aug 2020, 13:10

We had a visit from a Gigaclear rep yesterday (hoping to woo our street to their services - we are all concerned about damage in one of Charlbury's numerous narrow lanes). We also use the Phone Coop. He said they would approach the latter to see what might be possible. Both of them are local firms.

Fri 7 Aug 2020, 11:36

I’m interested that others are saying this new network will be open access.  My provider (Phone Co-Op) says they won’t be given access.

Thu 6 Aug 2020, 13:45

Hello everyone. I have just been pointed in the direction of this thread and I hope I might be able to clarify a few things for people who are concerned about Gigaclear, their operations and those of their contractors, as well as the broadband services available to customers.

I can…

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Tue 4 Aug 2020, 13:44 (last edited on Thu 6 Aug 2020, 16:20)

Gigaclear does offer Open Access - that is to say they allow other internet service providers ISPs to provide internet services to end customers on their network. I did check them all, but they were all dearer than Gigaclear.

Mon 3 Aug 2020, 12:11

I think it will be unlikely another company will lay it's own fiber network where one already exists. I don't think that Gigaclear has to open it's network to other ISPs, however I believe that openreach does have to allow other ISP to use it's network. After the 18 months Gigaclear contract is up it is likely that the prices will be higher and there will be no cheaper fiber provider in Charlbury.

Sun 2 Aug 2020, 18:02

As a loyal BT customer and getting the highest speed through the current wiring. Anyone aware of when full fibre will be available from BT - as currently in contact and reluctant to change supplier to a new company with little provenance and likely to be absorbed or taken over at some time in the future 

Sat 1 Aug 2020, 14:58 (last edited on Sat 1 Aug 2020, 15:04)

Gigaclear update.

So prices excluding VAT

Gigaclear residential £2pm for one static IPV4 address

Ultrafast 300mbps  £34pm . Contention ratio 25/1. 18 month contract

Gigaclear buissness £12pm for 5 usable static IPV4 address

Business 100mbps £85.50pm. Contention ratio 10/1. 24 month contract. Activation fee £166.67

So you can upgrade your contract to be more, say going from residential to business but not the other way without paying cancellation fees. It may be best to start as residential then when it gets congested then move over to business with a better contention ratio.

It's important to remember that gigaclear is just a pipe and that your email services and web hosting have to be provided by other cloud providers (zen give you email and hosting). I have registered an interest as this does not bind you to taking a contract

Wed 22 Jul 2020, 20:35

Those prices shown by Colin Critch, which I suspect may vary depending on the ISP you use, will mean that for the current time I shall certainly not need to move to Gigaclear.

We get a very reliable 60+ Mb/s down and 10Mb/s up at present from EE for everything; unlimited broadband, line rental and all calls to landlines, UK mobiles and many overseas countries including USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, and just about all of Europe for £35 per month, more than good enough for all our household requirements.

If I had a house full of teen (or older) gamers, streaming games over the web all at the same time, perhaps a higher speed might be useful, but for now, no thank you; it's not for us!

Wed 22 Jul 2020, 18:03

John Kearsey would have a point if a dependable 60 Mbps was available, but we were getting more like 6 Mbps. Went onto Gigaclear earlier this month and now we have 280.

Installation guys were very friendly and helpful. They made sure everything was working as it should before they left. Haven't had cause to contact their customer services department yet, but the linespeed is superquick!

Wed 15 Jul 2020, 13:31

Thanks Katie, wurzel suggested vonage. In the past I have used draytel.org for my VOIP and found them to be OK. They also have kit that works with draytek routers. I'm would be looking for a a bit of kit that can do encrypted VOIP/SIP as you wouldn't want it to be too easy for your conversations to be intercepted  by anyone with access to general internet traffic. All the older kit does this without encryption!

I will wait until there is fibre for a year and see how things go before I would change over from zdsl.

As for 5G which will not work well in rural areas ( reasons of financial outlay/distance), I do not bank on it arriving any time soon, as politicians  choose which countries have the ability to spy on our traffic ( including our own, the USA five eyes, or/and the Chinese a that have to make the equipment anyway). All countries can intercept network equipment and put in their own back doors ( NSA thinking CISCO ) then box them back up and sent them on to the companies that order them.

https://www.infoworld.com/article/2608141/snowden--the-nsa-planted-backdoors-in-cisco-products.html

Wed 15 Jul 2020, 12:06

Hans, if that were true, then there wouldn't be much difference between the suppliers. A quick glance at any of the Broadband comparison sites shows that customer reviews do vary greatly between different ISPs.

Tue 14 Jul 2020, 16:27 (last edited on Tue 14 Jul 2020, 16:27)

Just to say I have used Vonage for 13 years and it's been 100% flawless, except once when the little black box supplied by them that sits between the router and the telephone gave up - after 10 years. They sent a new one for free. 

This is probably like ISP reviews, you never comment when you're happy, only when it goes wrong. 

Tue 14 Jul 2020, 16:21

Maybe look at the customer service reviews for Vonage before you explore that option too far. I looked into it and decided against.

Tue 14 Jul 2020, 13:57 (last edited on Tue 14 Jul 2020, 14:07)

I investigated https://wurzel.co.uk  and they can do the following with one static IP :-

100mbps  £44pm   (inc Vat)

300mbps  £49pm

900mbps  £79pm

SLA is 2 - 3 days if the fibre is down/broken and needs repairing

One off install charge is £40.

VOIP is about £12pm with Vonage and you can keep your old phone number, but you will need VOIP phone or a converter.

So the cheapest zdsl replacement is £56 per month not including set-up costs

Ping times should be 16ms faster than copper, so good for gamers.

Thu 9 Jul 2020, 22:55

Well they aren't hanging around...Gigaclear already digging up Marlborough Place!

Mon 29 Jun 2020, 20:58

I also spent some time looking at the Gigaclear open access partners. All of them seemed more expensive than Gigaclear, where cost information was available. For BT/Openreach there appears to be a wholesale rate that zen, talk talk, sky etc pay. Low enough for those to make a margin but still be competitive with the incumbent. That appears to be missing in this case.

That aside of course FTTP fibre to the premises should be a given in 2020. Sitting here and surfing on very very thin copper wire is of course outdated. 

Mon 29 Jun 2020, 11:50

Just to be clear on the matter of Gigaclear's 'Open Access' that Jeremy and others have noted, and I found initially encouraging. It seems that it is open to companies that choose to partner with Gigaclear, the list of which are on Gigaclear's website, none of which I have ever heard of. It does not mean (as I had hoped it might) that your preferred provider can provide your FTTP service. In a recent interview, the president of Zen, preferred provider for myself and several other commenters, indicated that Zen would not be partnering with the new fibre installers anytime soon (and why that is). So one's choices remain rather limited regarding ISPs. That said, however, we should keep in mind that new partnerships may be arranged in the future, so having the infrastructure in place is probably not a bad idea.

Mon 29 Jun 2020, 10:29 (last edited on Mon 29 Jun 2020, 10:32)

I think the contractor is called MKJ, or MJK. They are allowed to do work like any other utility, and can only do so with a permit.  If they are laying cable in the road or the pavement then that is granted by OCC.  If the land they want to lay it on is private they have to get permission from the landowner and they have been doing that by writing to people around the town, eg: the town council for permission to it lay on Mill Lane.  Once the cable is laid,  if people want the cable extended from the public road into their own properties, they have to agree that with Gigaclear.

Sun 28 Jun 2020, 06:50

@liz leffman who is the contractor please? How can they do work without residents consent?

Thu 25 Jun 2020, 21:46

Just for info, whilst Gigaclear is seeking to install the infrastructure, once the fttp has been installed, the infrastructure is classed as an "open network" so you have a choice of which internet service provider (ISP) you contract to supply your internet. You do not have to sign up to Gigaclear as your ISP. Further information here.

Thu 25 Jun 2020, 10:54

I have checked with OCC about ownership and they say that while they are responsible for the bridleway and its maintenance, the land over which it runs does not belong to them. Gigaclear will have to apply to OCC for a permit to do any work on the bridleway though.

Wed 24 Jun 2020, 19:49

I can't say what OCC will agree to, Lesley, but I do know that they will absolutely not allow the path to be tarmaced over, they will have to leave it as they find it.

Wed 24 Jun 2020, 13:46

We had the Gigaclear fibre laid on Spelsbury Road I think in 2018. It was put in the verge on the east side of the road, and if they had to cross the road they did the channel in two steps as to not stop local traffic. It was the neatly tarmaced. As for when they need to dig through a property entrance road they will a) dig fast with a minidigger, and b) if a car needs to pass during the dig they will board up the narrow channel. They will only be digging that channel for a couple of hours at most. I have not connected up to their service, but probably will. As for reviews, all ISPs get terrible reviews. 

Wed 24 Jun 2020, 10:16

Liz, happy to send the letter to you. 

What is the likelihood that the council would agree to Gigaclear doing work on the lane?

Wed 24 Jun 2020, 10:09

Hundley Way is definitely listed as a bridleway and so OCC would have to be contacted for their consent. 

 If you are able to scan and send the letter to liz.leffman@oxfordshire.gov.uk, that would be a help. I can then put Gigaclear and the footpaths officer in touch with each other.

Wed 24 Jun 2020, 09:56

I received a letter this morning from Gigaclear requesting information as to who owns Hundley Way, as they wish to dig from Banbury Hill to Fox Mead house. The letter states that Hundley Way is "...unregistered on the Land Registry website". 

Does anyone know who owns Hundley Way? As far as I am aware Hundley Way is a Bridleway (unadopted Road) and public right of way. 

My concern is if Gigaclear get access to dig up the lane they might tarmac it or part of it. There is also the immediate issue of if they do dig it up to lay cable, how will residents access their property as well as Ditchley accessing their field? 

Tue 23 Jun 2020, 21:19

Interesting review here if you would like to read more about the Gigaclear service.

Whilst I have been happy with Zen as my ISP for many years, even on their fastest plan this can challenged when multiple people are streaming TV, films and playing video games etc. Our demand for faster download speeds are only going to increase with time and the symmetrical speed (option to increase the upload speed from 20Mbps to 900Mbps) opens all sorts of possibilities for the future.

What are the alturnatives? How long is it going to take for 5G to arrive in Charlbury? Which other FTTP is offering to install in Charlbury?

I will certainly be registering my interest with Gigaclear from a personal and business perspective.

Whilst people will make up their own minds, I think a FTTP internet service will benefit individuals and businesses alike in Charlbury for many years to come.

Tue 23 Jun 2020, 17:36 (last edited on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 17:51)

I think Richard, Neil and Frank's observations are spot on. Its hard to know how a technology will develop over the years. 

In the late 1980s I was working as a trainee accountant - auditing Greenwich council. It transpired there were some terrace houses nearby where the elderly residents didn't have electricity. I was astounded.

The housing officer I was speaking to explained that when the electricity company laid the cables in the 1920s, most people connected, but some residents said they were quite happy with their gas connection for lighting and cooking. No-one could have predicted television, or the other devices in our homes.

So those residents were not connected at the time, and it subsequently cost significant sums to come back - and some people on low incomes simply could never afford it. 

A second story - I was in Sweden a couple of years back - and we stayed with a friend. He lives in a rural area, outside Örebo, he needed broadband and ended up having to pay the equivalent of six thousand pounds to get the public utility to run a connection to his house.

I completely accept the points about disruption, and the need for work to be done sensitively. But I think we should recognise the importance of this technology and as a society we have collectively undertaken to support its rollout beyond the urban areas. 

Tue 23 Jun 2020, 16:55 (last edited on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 17:14)

Richard's post reminds me of meetings with British Telecom in the early 1980s when they were designing for what was then the first all optical fibre telephone system in the world. The basic data rate was 140Mb/s, increasing to 565Mb/s and that was for the city to city trunk network.  I remember that we all wondered  how this enormous data rate could possibly be needed or used, and here we are now with just a few homes  exceeding that between them. No one then remotely predicted what would be needed in the future, but one thing I have learnt after 40 years designing optical fibre systems is that technology will always expand to fill the information capacity available.

On a separate point about Gigaclear, I am very surprised to see a 50 year life time claimed for their system. When I designed this stuff at Nortel Networks and Bookham Technology we worked to a 25 year design lifetime. One of the main causes of fibre failure is cable stress, and that will be made much worse laying it in shallow trenches.

Tue 23 Jun 2020, 16:28

Having also received the letter from the company this morning, I have no problem with them soliciting expressions of interest about using their service when it becomes available.  In fact, it seems to me a pretty sensible thing to do from a business perspective;  get an idea of how many fish there are in the pond before you drop your hook in. 

Having lived in Oxford during the 1990s when cable TV was 'the next big thing', we also had our pavements dug up and ducting installed - only for the company involved (Telewest, I think) to find out that not actually that many people wanted it after all.  And what happened?  They effectively went bust before being subsumed into Virgin Media.

Tue 23 Jun 2020, 16:20

Susie, you’re as ever very welcome to reproduce the news piece from https://www.charlbury.info/news/3120 (which, unlike the below, was written with my TC hat on!).

Tue 23 Jun 2020, 16:00

Any one want to write a FACTUAL account of all this for the Chronicle?

Tue 23 Jun 2020, 15:32

Is the discussion here about the qualities (lack of?) of Gigaclear, or whether or not Charlbury should get fibre infrastructure to the door? If the former, I understand people may wish to research and challenge - factually - the merits of one investing company vs another. I’d be disappointed if this conversation is by association challenging the latter. An investment in fibre infrastructure in Charlbury and the surrounding villages is a fantastic thing and will provide choice for those that need it now or in the future (and those saying it is not required clearly do not have a household demand that warrants it). 

So whilst it’s great to research and challenge any infrastructure or utility company to improve their terms, quality of service, and implementation efficiency, let’s do so factually. I’m reading emotion, cynicism, and no small amount of political persuasion in this thread, and actually very few facts, which is disappointing. Gigaclear, like any company, must be transparent and accountable. If they’re a load of rubbish, they’ll suffer, and rightly so. But unfounded terms like “dodgy” are not helpful. Gigaclear or not, let’s not talk down our opportunity to have modern fibre broadband infrastructure in the town, which will serve us well in the long term and provide a choice for those that want it.

Tue 23 Jun 2020, 15:29 (last edited on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 15:29)

(Personal opinion only and not connected with any hat I might be wearing now or at any time…)

I’d caution against assuming that present patterns of use will continue. If you think back 25 years, the tiny minority of us who had Internet access were using screeching 56k modems (if that) which couldn’t coexist with phone calls. Most of us only had four channels of terrestrial TV. Now look at what we have, almost all of it delivered via broadband.

It’s a bit like Bill Gates’ (possibly apocryphal) 1981 quote – “When we set the upper limit of PC-DOS at 640K, we thought nobody would ever need that much memory”. You’re probably reading this on a computer with 8,000,000K!

It’s particularly important to Charlbury in that most of us, I think, want Charlbury to remain somewhere where people can choose to work rather than only being a commuter settlement; and most of us want it to be attractive to families of all ages, as well as to retirees. (That’s not to say commuters and retirees aren’t also welcome – just that a balanced community is good!) But home-workers and families have higher needs for connectivity. I have the fastest connection PlusNet will sell, and yet I regularly have to upload files that take 5 hours even at this speed. If Junior is trying to watch Hey Duggee at the same time then it’s slower still. :)

Obviously if there are going to be construction works – and Gareth is right, of course, that central Government basically makes them very difficult to refuse – then we should work to make sure they minimise disruption. And there’s no excuse for poor service whether it’s a broadband, electricity, water or whatever provider.

Tue 23 Jun 2020, 14:56

I think Gigaclear would be a good thing for many installations I have dealt with who live in the middle of nowhere and have appalling service (half Mbps!).  But I doubt whether laying a cable over fields and down muddy lanes to bring them into the modern world  would appeal to Gigaclear - not cost effective.  To break into the Charlbury market would, by comparison, potentially bring rewards since there is a larger market to supply for the same cost. However, I'm not sure if there are dead spots in Charlbury where the advent of Giga would be welcome but, from my experience, most seem well connected.

Tue 23 Jun 2020, 13:13

Isn’t this interesting Charlie. It is beginning to sound dodgy, to say the least. I think this company needs to be further investigated by those who waved it through. I don’t want this here, either.

Tue 23 Jun 2020, 12:55 (last edited on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 13:24)

This morning I received a letter from Gigaclear. It seems to imply that their "infrastructure" will cost NOTHING. 
It also implies that if you reply to them at the email address given, it basically counts as a "vote" which will give them a sum of money from the Government. After a little research I found an alternative contact email, networkbuildcare@gigaclear.com, and have replied to them there as follows:

"I received your letter today. I have the following points to make:You state that your work will be "at no cost to you". That is a very broad statement; I therefore assume that *use* of your network will *also* be at no cost to me. Correct?

The reason I am not using the email address that you supply in your letter ("v*****ers@gigaclear.com) is that your letter implies that that email address is a "vote collector", and that the more people who reply to that address, the more money you will get from the government. For the reason below, I do *NOT* want Gigaclear in Charlbury:

Researching your company on the internet, I find that the service you supply (if, indeed, it can be called such) is terrible (putting it politely), with customer complaints very poorly dealt with. 

Accordingly I shall be retaining my current ISP, which provides a *professional* service; Gigaclear will *not* be "getting *me* connected."

Frankly, they sound like Cowboys. 

Tue 23 Jun 2020, 08:56

Colin that is such useful information. Thanks very much for your input. There is so much that we can do for ourselves, with good advice.

Sun 21 Jun 2020, 22:47

Or 5G? Because fiber to whereever will be redundant... That is to say will we get it as the current Huawei basestation installed base is software upgradeable. Whereas changing to Nokia and/or Ericsson is a hardware install - much more expensive. Then comes Covid-19 and the potential Wuhan lab leak - should we buy from China. I know the answer to that.

Sun 21 Jun 2020, 14:50

Mandy, please ask your dissatisfied friends to put their opinions down on here if they don’t mind? We need to know what’s going on with this company. Also anyone who is thrilled with it, in all its aspects?

Sun 21 Jun 2020, 14:22

Haven’t got it myself but I know people who have and are not happy with it as it keeps cutting out. I’m with bt more than happy with it. That is in finstock though 

Sun 21 Jun 2020, 13:58 (last edited on Sun 21 Jun 2020, 14:07)

Considering that they use Linksys routers and their bad online reviews I think I will skip this and stick with Zen Internet and ZSDL. I wonder how soon 40Mbps will become inadequate for domestic needs though and my estimate is about 4 to 8 years. Lets wait for the next best thing.

The only compelling thing about Fibre To The Premises was the synchronous up speeds the which make it good for hosting a web server(I do this, with a UPS and solar panels and an Intel NUC), which is difficult with limited ZDSL up-speed 9mbps that we have at the moment.

It is also a little more expensive (£49pm with 300Mbps up and down), plus you would I guess pay for a real land-line separately or use a VoIP (Voice Over IP) solution. VoIP is no good when you have a power cut. Conventional landlines have 50 volts present even if the local grid goes down so are good in emergencies. 

Most people can improve what device speeds they have at the moment with good quality and well configured equipment sadly this is rare with BT being the incumbent equipment supplier and the equipment being underpowered and left with the same default settings. Most streaming issues are due to overloaded 2.4 GHz wifi access-points/routers (aim for 5GHz) while overlapping with other networks. So don't accept the equipment that the ISP pushes on you, get something that will deal with the number of devices you are connecting to it and is secure. Use good power-line extenders ( encrypted, without surge suppressed mains sockets or extension cables) for your home network with decent powered access-points to extend your wifi network (devolo works quite well).

Sun 21 Jun 2020, 10:58

I agree 300Mbps seems overkill, but if working from home is a to become a permanent feature of of our lives, I wonder whether the much higher speeds might be needed? We have a Phone Coop super fibre connection so should get up to an advertised 60Mbps, but one of two simultaneous zoom calls often freezes, and that's without any teenagers in the house.

Sat 20 Jun 2020, 22:41

Thanks so much everyone for sharing their experiences and thoughts to date. It is alarming and what with C-19, and the dark, ever-present shadow of Brexit lurking like another evil plague, the thought of yet another money-grabbing, shareholder-led, greedy company ploughing its way through Charlbury is giving me exhaustion-in-prospect.

Sat 20 Jun 2020, 20:10

I've not met Cotswold but his wife Lost is lovely and always most helpful.  

Sat 20 Jun 2020, 16:49

Is Cotswold Property a person? Mr or Ms Property perhaps? Until now this has been a discussion among individuals who live in this area and have concerns about their homes and local environment. I think it should continue to be such a thing and I'd like to know whether there is a human being who belongs to the community behind this posting or whether we are being put in our place by a corporate entity.

Cotswold (Cot? Cotsy?) who are you?

Sat 20 Jun 2020, 15:42

The network infrastructure being installed by Gigaclear in Charlbury over the next 6 months is an “Open Access” network that can be used by a number (at least six at present) different internet service providers. 

The time to object / raise concerns to the infrastructure being installed (Nationally) was the Govt. consultation ahead of the  2018 Future Telecoms Infrastructure Review being published. 

Sat 20 Jun 2020, 14:00

Rosemary, as I understand it, we have little choice. It's a commercial operation that has been granted permission by OCC and the government, not a subsidised one (as was the case in Fawler, for example).

When you look at Gigaclear's roll-out map for West-Oxfordshire, you can see why Gigaclear has gone for the decision to include Charlbury. We are in a sort of gap between area 20 (which includes Ditchley) and area 9 (includes Fawler and Stonesfield), plus other areas as well (Chadlington, Finstock and Ascott). See https://www.gigaclear.com/west-oxfordshire

I can already see that I won't be going for this service, having looked at Gigaclear's guide to installation: https://www.gigaclear.com/installation/installation-types

I had already spotted Gigaclear in the road outside my house (a week or so ago, and I did not then understand what it was about). From the area they were investigating for a POT (Point of Termination) onto my property and into my house, there is a dry/rubble stone garden wall (that needs regular maintenance), a long front garden (with shrubs, flower beds and a lawn), plus a thick stone cottage wall. All of these would need to be dug up or under, or drilled through, and for questionable results. In addition, I suspect it would count as a "non-standard installation" (to be paid for by me). The legal terms that one has to agree to are also not great! 

So, no, thank you very much. 

It's true that I do get some buffering when using an amazon firestick when it's plugged into my TV, but i-player and the other apps on the TV itself work just fine. And I would not want to take the risk (and the undoubted hassle) of an installation.

It might be more appealing to those living in more modern houses, with short or no front gardens, as well as for offices and the like. But for a lot of Charlbury residents, I suspect it will make little sense -- especially given those reviews.

Sat 20 Jun 2020, 09:42

Katie, I just read the reviews. If they are anywhere near the truth, and accepting that the ones with 5 stars in every category were possibly written by the company itself, this company would appear to be something to avoid at all costs. Buyer beware is one thing, but if we as a town are going to have an autumn/winter of road closures and traffic disruption, and the noise and the muck that goes with all that, I think we should know more about it.

Sat 20 Jun 2020, 08:04

Definitely agree about the depth that the cable has been laid. Some of the cable to our house is still clearly visible above ground, despite numerous calls to Gigaclear to ask them to come back and lay it properly. 

Fri 19 Jun 2020, 22:08

Janet, we need to listen to the people who live here, work here, and care about our town and its inhabitants.

Fri 19 Jun 2020, 20:32

I too would be interested in the justification for work currently being done in Charlbury itself. 

For some reason, which WODC have yet to provide, just 2 properties at the very top of Woodstock were included as part of the rural scheme. Both properties are quite satisfied with current broadband provision and did not want Gigaclear. But no-one could explain why we were included on sort of a spur. Perhaps part of the plan to cover Charlbury. And neither of us has changed to Gigaclear - quite happy with BT broadband. 

It was, as Katie rightly says, totally chaotic. And work was carried out without notice to homeowners or consideration for them. To the extent that a lorry arriving to deliver a pallet of jars could not get near our property. But I have to say that when I cooled down, and talked to the foreman and his team calmly, all was sorted and they did their best to address concerns. 

Liz, for your information, a friend who is an experienced tree surgeon and who travels local roads regularly is of the opinion that there might be problems in the future. In his opinion, the cable was not buried deep enough in places and did not take into account drainage ditches. He is predicting that when the drainage ditches are cleared out there is a high degree of likelihood that the cable may get damaged. Watch this space?   

Fri 19 Jun 2020, 19:03 (last edited on Fri 19 Jun 2020, 19:04)

This sounds awful in prospect. Thank you Katie for giving your side of the reality. There is some small consolation that the contractor was sacked after botching up a lot of villages. I can’t believe I'm reading all this.

Fri 19 Jun 2020, 16:38 (last edited on Fri 19 Jun 2020, 16:47)

The installation in Fawler was part of WODC's programme to get broadband to the villages that had no broadband access at all, but the decision to install in Charlbury is not part of that programme. Gigaclear have taken a commercial decision to do this. As Gareth says, we have no control over the installation, other than that OCC has to grant them permits to commence the work, and will inspect after they have finished to make sure that the roads, verges and pavements are left in good condition.  It is then up to individual households whether they want to stick with the current broadband connection or go for the faster connection that Gigaclear will be offering. The good news is that the contractor which did the work in Fawler was fired ( they botched up in a lot of villages), and the new contractor which will be doing the work in Charlbury has a much better track record.

Fri 19 Jun 2020, 13:58

Our experience is not unique by the way:

https://www.broadband.co.uk/broadband/providers/gigaclear/reviews/

Fri 19 Jun 2020, 13:53

Unfortunately the utilities companies (which includes fibre broadband) operate under legislation which allows them to pretty much do what they want, with very little scope for local government to intervene.  It would be helpful for us all to have clear contact details as and when issues arise.

Fri 19 Jun 2020, 13:50

We live in Fawler and this is one of the areas covered by the rural Broadband scheme. Gigaclear began the installation works last summer and were ready to start connecting people by September. To start with the positives, the speed is amazing. We get 320mbps for £45 per month and we have dispensed with our BT landline now as we use WiFi calling on our mobiles. The service has been completely reliable so far.

On the negative side, the work to lay the cable in the village was a nightmare. It was carried out with no warning to the residents. They made quite a lot of mess and caused traffic chaos on numerous occasions. They even managed to cut through the BT line supply to the entire village which then took weeks for BT to resolve. They had to come back several times to redo the road and make good the verges.

Also, the actual installation to the house was a nightmare too and took months. There was a blockage in the duct to our property and we had numerous missed visits by engineers to address it. Customer service was absolutely awful and I ended up emailing the Gigaclear CEO in the end to try to get it resolved. Having not realised that installation was going to be so difficult, I gave notice to BT to end our service before the FTTP was live, which then meant 7 weeks with no internet or phone. It took over 3 months to get sorted in the end and several of our neighbours had similar problems.

On balance, it was worth it here in Fawler where our speed previously was the lowest possible, barely 5mbps most of the time. If you're currently getting 60Mbps, then I am not sure it would be worth the hassle to be honest.

Fri 19 Jun 2020, 12:02

lets hope they dont start slowing our broard band down in order to encourage us to change

chris wastie

Fri 19 Jun 2020, 11:52

Curious. So, the town centre roads are to be dug up over a period of six months, for a private company to supply specialised services to some houses. Is this because “it’s the right thing to do”? The company believes that they have enough demand in the town to make it worthwhile because *in theory* it can be 15 times faster. I’d be interested to know how they got this contract based on beliefs and theories.

Fri 19 Jun 2020, 11:25 (last edited on Fri 19 Jun 2020, 11:26)

Not wanting to sound like a Luddite, but isn't the currently available 60Mbps broadband speed sufficient for most households? HD TV and video gaming both need less than 10Mbps. Gigaclear's "most popular" package delivers 300Mbps, which is like having a mains pipe a foot in diameter to supply water your house - it will do the job, but not strictly necessary!