Face coverings/masks (Debate)

Sun 17 May 2020, 10:47

If anyone is interested I have been making fabric masks that are washable and made with three layers. I've listed some on the adverts section of the site and am selling them at a fiver each to try and make a basic income.

Tue 12 May 2020, 10:22

I doubt that the majority of us with zero sewing skills are going to want to start this now.

I’m sure the ‘advice’ will just lead to those with virus-related anxiety to feel even less comfortable, and for various extra arguments to result.  It was only a week or two ago that they were telling us not to bother.

Mon 11 May 2020, 21:44 (last edited on Mon 11 May 2020, 21:51)

"The primary purpose of the army is defence of the nation which includes (and has always included) peace missions."

Correct, but also remember that since the Second WW the British Army has been deployed in Northern Ireland; Africa; the Baltics; Cyprus; the Falklands; and other places.  Source?  The official British Army website:  https://www.army.mod.uk/deployments/

And yes - they shoot people!

I think I understand where you're coming from - but sometimes the Army is needed, and I feel for the soldiers as much as I do for the nurses and Doctors.

Mon 11 May 2020, 20:17 (last edited on Mon 11 May 2020, 20:18)

The primary purpose of the army is defence of the nation which includes (and has always included) peace missions. The army is often utilised when natural disasters occur and not so long ago, as a stand in for the fire brigade. Most recently the RAF  has also been used in a peace capacity to repatriate stranded British Nationals from abroad and collect PPE from Turkey. They do a fantastic and incredibly important job.

Mon 11 May 2020, 19:45

My daughter (40) and her Husband and 3 of my 5 grandchildren are in Hong Kong, where the Army was deployed for a few weeks. Just to check that people were only going out/travelling to obtain necessities. My sister (76) is in Auckland, NZ, where the Army has been deployed, again, just to check. Why wouldn't you want a lockdown enforced?

I know of some in Charlbury who are shielding.  That can't be easy.  Especially if (as they are) living alone.

Please don't underestimate the insidious nature of this virus.

Mon 11 May 2020, 19:24 (last edited on Mon 11 May 2020, 20:06)

Steve,

The "vast majority" is insufficient, although I agree that most people are observing social distancing.

However, your experience is not the same as mine, certainly during "lockdown". You clearly have had no experience of people travelling from/to London or wherever, with the Virus, (during lockdown) and being in a shop, as I just have, with a woman coughing her lungs out, and not using tissue or elbow.  

Spain and Italy have deployed their Armies to set up roadblocks and checkpoints and this may be partially how they have brought the contagion under control.  Do you really expect the Police to be able to stop people galavanting about?  There aren't enough of them!

Besides, the Army has already been deployed to e.g. set up the Nightingale Hospitals, and to take some pressure off the Ambulance service.

I'm not suggesting Martial Law, but this is (as many keep telling us) the greatest National Emergency in most people's living memory, and certainly the greatest since the Second WW.

The R rate must be kept below 1.  Simple.  A Nation must use all its resources to do that, and any responsible Government (of whatever political hue) would do so.

This is not a game.

Mon 11 May 2020, 19:04

Unfortunately the first reply specifically referred to other matters, including utilising the army and claiming people are just doing whatever they like.

Mon 11 May 2020, 18:55

The original post was about wearing a face covering in enclosed spaces, such as the local shops, in order to protect everyone. Transmission is now known to happen when asymptotic and so you may have no symptoms, sneeze due to hayfever, and can still pass it to others. Wearing a face covering in enclosed spaces is about protecting others but would need uptake. Scientific evidence indicates that a (non surgical) face covering would reduce transmission by reducing aerosolised particles.

Mon 11 May 2020, 17:45 (last edited on Mon 11 May 2020, 17:45)

My experience is that the vast majority of people in Charlbury have been using common sense. When passing in the street or out walking, people step aside and don't take unwarranted liberties.

That is they are following the principles of keeping their distance. For example, people do have a chat in the streets if they come across one another, but they keep their distance. I fixed somebody's printer the other day, and I did it in the garden whilst maintaining a distance. I have bought eggs for somebody when I had the chance to do so in Witney as there were none to be had in Charlbury.

I really don't think that there are many people just "do what they want" as that implies a lot more.

The virus is not spread by people in cars, it's not spread by people walking past one another outside at a reasonable distance, unless somebody is coughing and sneezing (in which case they should most definitely not be about in the first place). It's becoming clear that it's primarily spread indoors, on public transport and in enclosed spaces.

As for the idea that the army should be involved, then just what sort of country do you want? Armed checkpoints at road junctions? This is not Northern Ireland in the troubles. This is a public health issue, and not one of public order as the well known lawyer David Allen Green has pointed out, and the two should not be confused.

Mon 11 May 2020, 17:31

My Wife's Aunt has been sewing masks for weeks now.  She sent us two.  Very well put together.

I would wear mine if that is the recommendation, but it is uncomfortable (elastic quite tight around the ears).

Mon 11 May 2020, 16:58 (last edited on Mon 11 May 2020, 17:04)

I have used this YouTube tutorial to make for family and friends.

https://youtu.be/4FB--BOyTiU

I have adapted to include longer elastic so I don't have to hook around my ears. Elastic hooks around an ear saver at the nape of the neck. 

The purpose of them is to give others protection from the user who could be asymptomatic.

If everyone wore them in enclosed spaces we would all gain some protection from eachother.

Mon 11 May 2020, 16:31

From what I understand the only masks that can protect you from the virus are N95 masks, and they cannot be had as healthcare worldwide buys them up - and should have them. All other masks will stop you as a user spreading the virus if you have it. That in itself is not a reason to not wear them, but it is unlikely they will protect you. 

Mon 11 May 2020, 15:53

Found a pattern here: wym-1589208770798. As yet untried but I’ll have a go this week!

Mon 11 May 2020, 14:28

Advice from government today:

"...the government advice is that people should aim to wear a face-covering in enclosed spaces where social distancing is not always possible and they come into contact with others that they do not normally meet, for example on public transport or in some shops. Homemade cloth face-coverings can help reduce the risk of transmission in some circumstances. Face-coverings are not intended to help the wearer, but to protect against inadvertent transmission of the disease to others if you have it asymptomatically."

Mon 11 May 2020, 13:57 (last edited on Mon 11 May 2020, 17:59)

There’s an interesting overview about the benefits of mask wearing (to protect others primarily) and q&a here: wym-1589201918077

Mon 11 May 2020, 13:16

I don't know Helen.  The messages from our leaders are so confused, or should I say, confusing?

As for lifting the lockdown, many were ignoring it anyway.  There is no enforcement.  No Police, no Army.  So people just do what they want.  

Mon 11 May 2020, 11:24

As lockdown measures begin to change and ease over the coming weeks and months, wearing a face covering in an enclosed space (coop, Londis etc) could help to minimise asymptotic transmission and reduce the risk for our vulnerable residents. No clarity (yet) from the government but I’m interested what others think.