HELP OUR NHS - STOP CLAPPING, START QUESTIONING (Debate)

Thu 7 May 2020, 08:37 (last edited on Thu 7 May 2020, 08:38)

I’d like to recommend Dr John Campbell’s daily analysis of Covid19.
Yesterday’s was a global update on data and what different countries are doing or not doing. 
Thailand has good practice we can learn from.

https://youtu.be/kDUAQ9AgHIY

Wed 6 May 2020, 13:55 (last edited on Wed 6 May 2020, 13:58)

There is a free to view  film, on line until 10 May.

“Under the Knife” was made last year to raise awareness of the state of the NHS.

(It is 1.5 hours). It is on Vimeo.

vimeo.com/360850524

The clapping is hopefully to thank all the key workers and NHS staff, who are working- despite the politics.

Mon 4 May 2020, 20:55

I must say that I want to thank the staff who are putting themselves on the front line but do not like to think that's a distraction from the lives that could have been saved if the country had been better prepared and had taken better decisions to manage.

Sat 2 May 2020, 09:38

Thanks rachel grant. I have always suspected the viral load being a factor, would you have any source for this vital information?

Tim Harford looked in to if the death rate among NHS workers was higher than in the general population last week https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000hfqq.

Basically at that time the death rate in the general pop of working age was estimated at 1/20,000 and the same for NHS workers. 

I think it is an absolute disgrace that even one NHS worker has died - because of lack of PPE.

Fri 1 May 2020, 23:47

I agree. 

The line should no longer be simply"protect the NHS" with the inference being that all success and failure remains in the hands of the general public by staying home. But instead, "protect the NHS workers!" Which government has so far completely failed to do. 

We should not have frontline workers dying having contracted this disease from their patients. This is not a sad but inexorable outcome of the disease but the outcome of a disorganised government underinvesting in the NHS and then not getting its act together once crisis was upon us. 

It has been shown that there is a viral load response effect, meaning those individuals receiving repeatedly high viral doses (ie those working with sick Covid patients) are at a substantially increased risk of becoming seriously ill despite being normally fit and healthy. Hence the high number of deaths amongst frontline workers. Yet, hospital staff have been left for months now without adequate supplies of the correct protective equipment. The deaths of NHS frontline workers, on the whole, were preventable.

NHS workers don't want to die heros, they want to perform their jobs in a safe environment.

Fri 1 May 2020, 13:58

Thank you Jan.  Excellent.

Fri 1 May 2020, 12:36 (last edited on Sat 2 May 2020, 11:25)

In case anyone thinks I was just having a rant, go to iplayer and see what Sir Paul Nurse (Head of the Crick Institute & former President of the Royal Society) had to say on Question Time (sorry not clear before).  A man with a far bigger brain than mine....  I'll refrain from making other comparisons!

Fri 1 May 2020, 11:40

This is a clear outline  by Dr Tony O’Sullivan

https://youtu.be/rp6fYbF0jTc

Thu 30 Apr 2020, 13:03

Although I entirely agree that our NHS and Social Care workers need every support and appreciation from us all, I do get tired with this claim that MP's voted against pay rises. People are happy to watch shortened down clips and read columnist comments which aren't in any way in context. So here we go...

This needs some context!

In June 2017, after the general election, Conservative and DUP MPs voted against an amendment to a vote on the Queen’s speech, which among other things called on the government to lift the public sector pay cap, which limited pay rises for public sector staff to 1% per year.

The amendment would not, by itself, have lifted the public sector pay cap, although it would have increased political pressure on the government to do so.

Despite voting against the amendment, the government announced the end of the pay cap later that year, and nurses received a pay rise in cash terms above 1% in the following financial year.

Other public sector staff also received pay rises at various levels, though in some cases pay rises were below or at the level of inflation, meaning that they amounted to pay falls or pay freezes in real terms.

At the 2017 Autumn budget, five months after the vote in parliament, the government confirmed it was ending the public sector pay cap and in March 2018 it announced a pay rise for most NHS staff equivalent to at least 6.5% in cash terms over three years.

Changing slightly...

In regard to pay rises, why have the non-clinical 'top brass' of the NHS trusts evaded the spotlight? They are paid huge salaries to manage NHS trusts at local level and one would assume that these people have a say in equipment stockpiling in 'normal' times?

Thu 30 Apr 2020, 11:54

Yes, saw your post  Rod, just felt that the message really needs hammering home, since clapping feels so ineffectual. Also the great British public theses days do not have the backbone they once had. Most are happy to just let the status quo be. 
Having grown up in a medical family & watched the NHS be slowly dismantled by various Governments & now this, I cannot stay silent any longer. 

Thu 30 Apr 2020, 11:47

I posted on similar lines under the Hong Kong Graffiti thread – not sure how we got from there to here but still!

The Panorama prog was a bit light on the facts and a bit heavy on the heart strings for my taste – but that doesn’t mean it was wrong.  I heard from a ‘man who knows’ that it was Blair’s govt that started pandemic preparations after SARS in 2003, taken up again as Charlie mentions in 2009 – then abandoned under the next govt.  Not to mention the suppressed report after Exercise Cygnus in 2016 over which the medical campaigning group 54000doctors.org is now threatening judicial review proceedings (you remember, the type of challenge to the legality of govt actions Boris wants to curtail).  I won’t even start on their reaction to the virus – plenty of press coverage!

Yes, ok, I’m not a Conservative voter.  But this is more about competence.  And with or without the Bumbler-in-Chief in charge they’ve been found seriously wanting.

Wed 29 Apr 2020, 17:43

Hi Charlie,

Sorry probably worded part of my post poorly. I am not  in any way suggesting we stop supporting our wonderful Frontline Hero’s but just feel right now that clapping is so ineffective. Thus can I second Charlie’s suggestion of protesting outside of MP’s houses, which sadly under current distancing conditions might be somewhat difficult. Why do I feel that in a certain respect this virus is playing into Govrnmts hands! If anyone has any other ideas, since I fear this slippery lot will end up not being held responsible for this horrendous scandal!!

Wed 29 Apr 2020, 13:23 (last edited on Wed 29 Apr 2020, 14:17)

Deborah, I agree with almost every word, and I have watched the Panorama programme already.

This Tory government has been dishonest with the country and dishonest with the NHS workers. And while we are at it, do not forget that our excuse for an MP, Robert Courts, voted against a pay rise for the nurses. Thanks, Robert!

The last Labour government (under Gordon Brown) started the idea of a "PPE Safety Stock" (in 2009 I believe it was), precisely in anticipation of a medical emergency like we are now facing. This was "put to one side" by the Cameron government when they came to power in 2010, and our heroic NHS workers are now reaping the consequences of that action.

And what of now? Hancock blathers about getting Covid-19 tests up to 100,000 a day (at which rate it would take around 1 year and 9 months to test the whole country once), and seemingly does little about getting enough contingency supplies of PPE to keep our NHS workers safe). They are a DISGRACE. As the documentary says, they have supplied around 1,300,000 pieces of PPE so far, whereas the NHS need "hundreds of thousands of PPE items every day"!

ONE thing I disagree with Deborah about: We MUST continue to support the NHS workers, and showing applause every Thursday evening is a great way of doing that. But I think we need to do something else: I think the whole country should demonstrate outside the houses of ALL MP's who represent this government. 

This government MUST be brought to account. Not just Hancock. The government has a LEGAL OBLIGATION to provide appropriate care for NHS workers. And what are they doing? They are DOWNGRADING their PPE requirements! 

Scandalous! 

Wed 29 Apr 2020, 09:19

Just watched this :-

If you haven’t, I urge you to!!

I simply have no words!!

We should stop clapping on Thursdays & start really helping our NHS by petitioning our MP’s & putting signs outside our houses & writing, Tweeting & posting everywhere about this shocking situation.

This is simply scandalous & Matt Hancock needs to be bought to account & questions answered as to why out amazingly brave frontline workers lives are being lost & put at risk, simply because we clearly have a Government not fit for purpose.

These shysters are clearly hoping that the great British public, under lockdown & in fear of their own lives, will suck up every lie they sell us.

REMEMBER THEY WORK FOR US, THEY ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO US.

PLEASE, PLEASE CAN WE START GETTING ANSWERS & REAL SOLUTIONS FOR OUR BELOVED NHS.

Panorama, Has the Government Failed the NHS?: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000hr3y via @bbciplayer