Plastic-free Charlbury?

Tue 1 May 2018, 20:11

Sorry if I got confused. I know Nasreen talked about black, and then in my head I assumed that meant anything but white.

Sat 28 Apr 2018, 10:19

Yes Christine - that's what I understood. I also think the question was raised about exporting the high grade plastic. Why don't we process our own high grade waste? Although she did say that recycled plastic was down cycled to be used in drain pipes and conduits and building things. UK demand is probably not big enough to justify building a plastic processing plant?

Fri 27 Apr 2018, 02:05

Liz, I am sure your last post about plastics is wrong. It is only black plastic that can't be recycled in the case of food containers. All other colours are OK, including dark blue. And in fact we ought to be campaigning for the ending of black plastics in supermarkets and takeaways.

This is something that would really make a difference, unlike the question of small plastic tops or flyaway plastics. These are best burnt for energy, rather than exported to China and getting lost en route. So these are best put in the grey bins, since burning is what happens to most of the general waste.

I found the meeting most informative in a huge number of ways. I did not know, for example, that Grade 1 and Grade 2 plastics still get sent to China. I thought that had ended.

Thu 26 Apr 2018, 21:30

The WODC website does have lots of information that clarifies exactly what we can and can't recycle. The lid of our bins says that you should remove lids. The meeting was so informative. We all came to understand how complicated the job is for OCC and WODC. And how much easier it would all be if central government simply imposed rules. Like is you sell a ready meal it has to be in white container. Other colours contaminate. But is government doing that? Not likely methinks.

Wed 25 Apr 2018, 18:59

Thanks Liz. That clarifies. What I find irksome is separating flyaway plastic from soft plastic from hard plastic. I'm trying to do it with scissors and a Stanley knife, but I can't help thinking that plastic (which most of us can recognise) is, well, plastic. Is the Local Authority (or whoever) going to run training courses to educate ignoramuses such as me as to which is which? And who will pay for such courses?
Take e.g. a plastic milk bottle. I suffer from bouts of anxiety trying to decide if the lid is hard plastic, and "bottle" soft plastic. It seems to be critical.
Flyaway plastic is (to me at any rate) easily identified. So why can't we have another bin to put it in?
Also, as for bottles (not always wine bottles) are we expected to remove the metal caps and put them somewhere else? I'm not sure my teeth are up to it anymore. Not the caps, but the bit of metal which is left below. I think it is sometimes referred to as "the collar".

Wed 25 Apr 2018, 18:35

Thought this may be of interest...

www.eco-business.com/news/singapores-first-zero-waste-grocery-store-is-opening/

Mon 23 Apr 2018, 16:57

Now we know why! Why don't WODC recycle our flyaway plastics? Because local authorities are required to deliver their targets by weight. And flyaway plastics simply do not weigh enough even cumulatively so they can't get a contract with any recycling company.
Yet flyaway plastics are among the most visible of our rubbish by the sides of our roads and railway lines. Because they fly away.
We learned this at the Sustainable Charlbury meeting held on 19th April with WODC and OCC explaining their waste and recycling policies. It was interesting, enlightening, and entertaining!

Tue 20 Mar 2018, 16:22

Maybe I didn't even intend to buy a cake until I saw how tempting the ones on offer were....

Tue 20 Mar 2018, 15:07

So in order to buy from the deli Charlbury would like you to
- take a container for your coffee/tea
- take a container for your herbs/spices
- take a container for each type of cake/quiche/biscuit you wish to buy

Let's hope you're not elderly, walk with a stick and live at Fiveways or the Green. And heaven forbid you should want to go out when there was snow on the ground.

Tue 20 Mar 2018, 13:32

I thought no paper contaminated by food was recyclable, & the same would therefore be true of cardboard boxes. On the other hand,cardboard (not sure about grease-proof) would burn without producing polluting smoke.

And actually in Oxfordshire I understood that most of our general waste now goes for burning, rather than to landfill. So really what we should be most concerned about is air pollution, especially for those unfortunate enough to live downwind of Ardley.

Tue 20 Mar 2018, 12:31

How about cardboard boxes like at cake shops Harriet? Or even better; bring your own container.

Mon 19 Mar 2018, 19:23

Greaseproof and baking paper isn't recyclable because of the non stick type coating.

How do you suggest people transport items such as cakes about if they can't use plastic or baking parchment to pack them in?

Mon 19 Mar 2018, 17:09

I have an Associate who has some great ideas about how to improve "things" generally. He is by profession a change management consultant and is currently advising the Health Authority how to reorganise to free up more beds and integrate more closely with Social Services, without spending extra cash on the NHS. He's doing most of this work free.
Associate would like to turn his attention to the "plastic" problem, and would love to be put in touch with anyone who has some incisive knowledge of this field. If you'd like to be put in touch with him please email me here. At this stage he just wants to speak with some like-minded people. Thank you.

Thu 1 Mar 2018, 22:54

Stop providing the plastic as a matter of course. People who really think it's important in their lives can ask for it.

Thu 1 Mar 2018, 15:04

We are very happy to leave the plastic off if you wish but...we have customers who actually like it wrapped to keep cake fresh or from icing sticking to the bag(although scones have no icing)
Happy to package whichever way you would like !

Thu 1 Mar 2018, 11:48

I didn't see the two plastic sheets until I got home. I'll ask for just a bag next time.

Thu 1 Mar 2018, 10:00

You could just ask them to only use the paper bag, they don't mind.

Wed 28 Feb 2018, 17:58

I bought a (very yummy) scone from Charlbury Deli this morning. It was wrapped in two sheets of plastic and a paper bag. Could that have been replaced by a greaseproof paper bag? Would that have done the trick and be better than the plastic sheets?

Wed 28 Feb 2018, 12:15

Interesting … https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/28/worlds-first-plastic-free-aisle-opens-in-netherlands-supermarket

Tue 27 Feb 2018, 23:53

Meanwhile, from the dept. of randomnly stumbled upon url's: tanin and paper compostible raincoats. The possibilities of materials like this, for, say, packaging, should be evident:
luziedeubel.de/tannin-coathttp://luziedeubel.de/tannin-coat

Tue 27 Feb 2018, 20:52

I've signed.

I've been checking out the Deli's non-plastic-packaged vegetables. I'm just asking them to price them up before I buy. But I'll pay a premium if I don't have to buy plastic at the same time.

Tue 27 Feb 2018, 20:42

" Co-operative have an ethos that states 'Principles more valuable than profits'.

That's a good point which I would like to draw to the attention of the new CEO of the locally-based Phone Coop, which many people around here support as members, as an aside. In the case of our local outlet, what pressure can we bring to bear practically?

Tue 27 Feb 2018, 19:21

Interesting petition...
https://www.change.org/p/12565321/u/22441151?utm_medium=email&utm_source=petition_update&utm_campaign=266171&sfmc_tk=K2ZdkZDQWsZybs%2b3Ay0NIEg80uNm%2fJRVA9m36TFKtyZvCFA7ckDa%2bYY%2foU3%2bnmc7&j=266171&sfmc_sub=333339841&l=32_HTML&u=48309070&mid=7259882&jb=381

Wed 7 Feb 2018, 12:27

Today's "Guardian" reports milk deliveries in glass bottles up 25%

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/07/return-milkround-plastic-problem-glass-bottle-deliveries

Sat 3 Feb 2018, 18:59

11 leading brands commit to going plastic-free by 2025 or before - bit.ly/2nHcvlR

Sun 28 Jan 2018, 09:27

Progress on tea bags: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jan/28/teabags-plastic-free-co-op-eco-friendly

Fri 26 Jan 2018, 21:44 (last edited on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 22:08)

This idea seems a good one to end the plastics generated today at the product supplier end and put the onus on the supermarkets supplying us. Send your plastic wrapped in a bag and marked with a freepost label of the supermarket customer services dept with a message explaining that you do not want this plastic and please cut back on your packaging. Would this work?
Also at events like Street Fair, the Beer Festival, Riverside Christine Elliot and her hard working team work try to achieve zero rubbish to landfill. It can be done just as easily as sending the rubbish to landfill in our grey wheelie bins. On the continent they have no landfill or recycling collections as everything is taken by the consumer to the local recycling centres, like we have at our supermarkets. This makes more sense than littering our streets with unsightly and large plastic bins, which in many places like Park and Market Street only blocks the path of the pedestrians on the already too narrow pavement which is next to a busy and dangerous road.

Fri 26 Jan 2018, 11:09

As a small Charlbury business, I really don't want to add more plastic to the world.

The Curiosities Company bacon and other cured products won't be sold in plastic packaging. I won't use any packaging at all if you want to collect directly from me and come with a suitable container.

I've discovered that there are some grants available to help with investment in new technology and research into this area. I'm applying! I hope to be able to feedback good news on this front soon. I'll be starting production optimistically in the next few weeks.

Fri 26 Jan 2018, 08:11

Charlbury Community Centre also can already refill bottles from the cafe sink and will look into the possibility getting a tap fitted so people can do this themselves. And I think it would be lovely to get the fountain working again.

Thu 25 Jan 2018, 22:42

Ooo, I like that idea a lot! And thanks too to the Deli for your refil capacity.

Thu 25 Jan 2018, 20:57

It might be possible to get a grant from these people to restore the fountain:

www.drinkingfountains.org/

Thu 25 Jan 2018, 15:15

Wonderful news, thank you Charlbury Deli & Cafe. I will email you directly to discuss how we can promote this.

Thu 25 Jan 2018, 12:33

Charlbury Deli is willing to refill water bottles (We already do for cyclists / walkers)

Thu 25 Jan 2018, 10:37

Steve, Jody is this something to follow through with the Town Council or Thomas Gifford Trust? It's a great idea if possible.
BBC story this morning Plastic bottles: Free water refill points rolled out to cut waste www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42808302 Water UK following through on the Refill initiative...

Thu 25 Jan 2018, 09:30

As Jody said on this thread on the 3rd January, can we also reinstate the water supply and refurbish the John Kibble Playing Close fountain?

Thu 25 Jan 2018, 08:08 (last edited on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 10:39)

Sustainable Charlbury is now exploring how to become part of the Refill scheme, run through www.refill.org.uk/, looking to see how we can get free water filling points in the town. It would be great to know if there are any cafes, pubs, shops or businesses in Charlbury interested in joining this wonderful initiative.

Mon 22 Jan 2018, 21:41

Sounds like a great idea.

I noticed that my original home town has made the journey...

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/town-turned-back-plastic/

Mon 22 Jan 2018, 16:04

Oats in Chippy re-fills bottles of detergent. I think that's washing up liquid and laundry detergent.

Fri 19 Jan 2018, 19:25

Just to say first Riverford box arrived - all plastic free, EXCEPT - the organic meat - where pork was in plastic (I think recycled) package. Rest was all paper - though polythene used for one package.

Thu 18 Jan 2018, 10:55

We're also trying to do our plastic-free bit at the Deli. The take-away cups and lids we use are 100% compostable (though you do need to still put them in your recycling I've been reliably informed). We also sell lots of fresh (mostly) vegetables ?" and there's not a bit of plastic wrap or packaging in sight!

Wed 17 Jan 2018, 14:24

Shocked to find that the 5 aubergines I ordered from Ocado came delivered today each in their own plastic bag. Disgraceful. I've written and complained. Also the shopping was in so many plastic bags when it could just have been in a single box.

Wed 17 Jan 2018, 11:04

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/team-blog/2018/01/16/13-ways-use-less-plastic-save-cash/

Wed 17 Jan 2018, 11:04

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/team-blog/2018/01/16/13-ways-use-less-plastic-save-cash/

Mon 15 Jan 2018, 09:33

Here at Cotswold Frames we try to use paper carrier bags for as much as possible when you purchase gifts etc even for picture frames where size permits.

Sun 14 Jan 2018, 19:53

I believe that the Rose & Crown is already moving to paper straws. And of course has its fantastic carry-outs in waxed card that can be used multiple times.

Sun 14 Jan 2018, 13:01

Why is it the responsibility of the supermarkets etc. for the disposal of plastic packaging? When anyone buys anything surely it is their responsibility to recycle it in the correct manner. We would all complain if a new item arrived without a carton and the inserts to keep it safe. I agree than something needs to be done, are we educating children at school about waste. I recycle as mush as I can in our household.

Fri 12 Jan 2018, 18:59

Thanks Jon I hadn't realised that.

Fri 12 Jan 2018, 11:23

Helen: Mudwalls are not organic. If you check their website, they now supply produce from all over the world. They do grow their own stuff, but as they get bigger, they are becoming just another wholesaler. And you can see the considerable amount of packaging they use in their own shop.

Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:42

This bag filters out the plastic microfibres from your washing.

bit.ly/2mwHdhX

At a price.

Thu 11 Jan 2018, 18:41

And what if you can't afford plastic free organic veg boxes? IMO this plastic debate is turning into a bit of back patting "I can afford plastic free food aren't I so amazing". The thread title is community, and that means everyone. And I for one don't want to see increased food waste when people discard slightly bruised fruit in the co-op or Deli, although I am aware others in the town put the environment before their community, and are less bothered about increased food waste as long as plastic is reduced.

Thu 11 Jan 2018, 17:12

Just received a box of organic veg, fruit and salad from Skylark Organics, totally free of any plastic.

Thu 11 Jan 2018, 15:55 (last edited on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 15:56)

Mark that's a good idea. Loads of paper bags available on Amazon or elsewhere online.

One thing I find frustrating about veg and fruit packaging is that if you want to buy a particular type e.g. the smaller bananas which taste better, or organic broccoli, these always come wrapped. You end up having to choose between buying what you actually want and getting something without plastic wrapping.

The Mudwalls veg that co-op sells is particularly plastic-heavy - which is a shame when they are organic and relatively local.

Wed 10 Jan 2018, 10:09

Just to add that my "milk and more" subscription is up and running - so far this year that's 4 plastic milk bottles and two plastic orange bottles avoided (they do fresh squeezed orange juice).

Next step is to think about vegetables. I've been buying as many as I can wrapper free, but am wondering about restarting my old Riverford subscription - which supplies vegetables in a re-useable cardboard box and paper wrappers.

I also wonder about having a stock of paper bags, which I can use instead of the provided plastic bags when at shops. But not sure where I could source these....

Tue 9 Jan 2018, 20:05

By chance I walked through Southwark Park and saw a greenhouse made from plastic bottles. Search on some images of it - I found this minute from a meeting:
Bottles - Bede are doing a greenhouse project, can everyone save their 2 litre bottles and bring it to the office as they need 3000 bottles for this project

Tue 9 Jan 2018, 14:47

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/08/recycling-incinerated-waste-china-ban-25p-coffee-cups?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

A lot of our waste is incinerated at Ardley, including at least some plastic.

Mon 8 Jan 2018, 15:42

After wading through all the passionate comments about our worries & concerns re Plastic waste. Would it be a good idea if we set up a petition to insist that the companies who sell us our toiletries & drinks, etc., be made to take the items back themselves. Many could be reused after disinfection. We could easily take bottles etc,
., back to our shops for them to return.?
Perhaps our sewage system could have a method to filter out the micro beads before they are dumped in rivers or out at sea?

Mon 8 Jan 2018, 14:45

We could always build a man shed out of bricks made from fly-away plastic and plastic bottles. That way we get rid of the rubbish AND build a useful resource for the town!

Mon 8 Jan 2018, 11:32

Yes, you can use plastic bottles for greenhouses. They don't have a long life as they degrade under UV. I'm not sure what the lifespan is, but it's a good cheap way of building them for schools.

Larger containers like the big milk bottles are useful painted black and filled with water. They'll absorb sunlight and heat and then re-emit the heat overnight. Again a good way of warming a solar greenhouse, although the larger the container the better really.

Mon 8 Jan 2018, 10:01

As someone who (very soon) hopes to be producing food products here in Charlbury, I'd really appreciate some feedback on packaging. I've been looking at alternatives to shrink wrapping my bacon and cured meats. As a child I recall collecting bacon from the butchers in my village, it was wrapped in a sort of greaseproof paper that I don't recall seeing in recent times. I think that works fine for a butcher, but selling bacon in other places wouldn't work so well. From a safety point of view, using a means of packaging which gives an air barrier, provides a longer life and better product.

Plastic shouldn't necessarily be thought of as a bad thing, it actually makes many products much more accessible to people, especially if you want to buy a small quantity of food that would otherwise deteriorate quickly. Such foods would be inaccessible to many if not wrapped in plastic. The BIG issue with plastic is that it is seen as waste and just thrown away. Creating a use for it which causes it to become a valuable input to the next process is where I personally think a lot of effort should be made. People will then see it as a valuable resource, and not something to just throw away. In some parts of the world, the flyaway plastic and bottles etc are compressed to form bricks for building.. how about a project to build a public shed out of plastic?

Sun 7 Jan 2018, 13:08 (last edited on Sun 7 Jan 2018, 19:36)

Just went to the Coop to stock up on fruit and veg. Guess which I was able to buy NOT in plastic - cauliflower, bananas, leeks, carrots, brown onions, mushrooms, broccoli....

Fri 5 Jan 2018, 11:42

Thanks Harriet and others - this convo made us finally get organized to use loose leaf tea every day instead of occasionally! Now trying not to be too materialistic about desirable tea-making paraphernalia.

Wed 3 Jan 2018, 19:52

Preferably not paper bags that have a fly-away plastic window stuck on one side -
the better to view the contents but much more difficult to recycle as the plastic and paper have to be separated. Ullapool has become the first village in the UK to completely stop the use of plastic straws in hotels, restaurants and bars thanks to a campaign by a group of primary school children. See www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-42439946

Wed 3 Jan 2018, 18:54

Could we ask our local pubs not to buy or give out plastic straws, or ask the coop to have paper bags by the fresh produce/baked goods? Relatively small changes but also relatively easy I would think. How about paper pint cups instead of plastic for the next egg toss?
And I'm definitely all for reinstating the Playing Close's public drinking fountain so we can all fill our reuseable bottles or have a drink when passing.

Wed 3 Jan 2018, 18:28

As an alternative - biodegradable plastic see
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/10/scientists-have-made-biodegradable-plastic-from-sugar-and-carbon-dioxide/
Looks like a very good ideato me and quite simple perhaps we should get him to come and tell usabout it

Wed 3 Jan 2018, 03:19

Dragging this back to plastics - and packaging - here is a connection I'd not made before (and how much does packaging make up this predicted demand?):
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/01/fracking-boom-further-spurs-plastics-crisis.html

Sat 30 Dec 2017, 17:43

Is that the black plastic one ? Bring back corona soft drinks in glass bottles and in wood crates - deposits for the return

Sat 30 Dec 2017, 17:28

I've put my recycling bin outside Mark. All contributions welcome. ;-)

Sat 30 Dec 2017, 16:21

So all the plastic 5 and 10 £ notes , what bin do they go in ?

Fri 22 Dec 2017, 17:47

Nice thought Liz! On the happy side, this thread shows that there are many thoughtful and informed people in Charlbury which bodes well for the campaigns / programmes that Sustainable Charlbury is proposing to launch in the New Year. First on the stocks is a public meeting with people from WODC responsible for its recycling policy and implementation. NOT a chance to grip about un-emptied bins, but an opportunity to understand why they recycle what they do, how external influences impact on their policies, and what changes may be coming in the future.

Thu 21 Dec 2017, 12:05

On the plus side, this thread puts Charlbury in the running for the Guardian's Top Green Towns award. And the days are about to get longer. Happy Solstice!

Thu 21 Dec 2017, 10:41 (last edited on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 10:44)

Happy Christmas John. I wish there was a post for 'good news' thread to cheer us all up for Christmas .

Thu 21 Dec 2017, 10:23

This thread has become a bottomless pit.

Wed 20 Dec 2017, 19:09 (last edited on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 19:10)

I think this thread has now reached the "bottom"!!! Must get on and have a nice cup of PG tips . Happy Christmas to all our readers .JH

Wed 20 Dec 2017, 16:54

It's not all bamboo toilet paper. There is also recycled paper. For those lucky enough, there's also the option of a bidet.

Wed 20 Dec 2017, 10:13

Interesting initiative at www.refill.org.uk/about-refill/ I know that this is being looked at in Oxford as well, perhaps we should link up and do the same in Charlbury.

Wed 20 Dec 2017, 04:25

And Liz, the first item on the list is BAMBOO bogroll (whogivesacrap.org) or am I missing an irony alert???

Tue 19 Dec 2017, 19:54 (last edited on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 20:39)

Ok, I'm missing something. Buying from the Deli is fine, but why recommend a company in Devon?

Bamboo isn't environmentally friendly, the fabric production process isn't good as I've already said, and you are advocating monoculture plantations which cause a reduction in biodiversity. If that's not acceptable in arable farming here, why is it acceptable to force it on third world farmers? What will happen to these people when we suddenly decide we don't want this amazing cash crop any more?

ETA link to a very recent paper on invasive behaviour etc of P. edulis which is the most commonly planted bamboo in plantations, just to show you there is some ecological basis in what I'm saying

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ece3.3471/full

Tue 19 Dec 2017, 19:10

Hi Harriet. I was awaiting your riposte to my post! Why do you think I use a man with a van for my food? I buy what's available in Charlbury which is why I want my veg and fruit not wrapped in plastic, and for dried goods to be packaged in paper.
And here's another thought - We now buy from whogivesacrap.org Because we do!

Tue 19 Dec 2017, 10:29

Very enlightening article Jon. Thank you.

Tue 19 Dec 2017, 08:56

Liz, I shall rephrase your teabag comment "But tea bags we do use have been going on the compost heap for years with no noticeable effects, though I understand the plastic will be there."

Replace tea bags with plastic bags, compost heap with sea.... Doesn't mean it's not having an effect just because you can't see it. You can't see most soil microbes either, but they're there.

Also, why is it better for someone in Devon to send you something in the post (using a van) than for you to drive to Witney? More environmentally friendly for you to drive to Witney because it's a shorter distance. Personally I don't buy from the beanbag because their spices etc don't have a high enough turn over.

And please remember that not everyone in Charlbury is able to walk to the Deli (or anywhere else) carrying one or more containers and then carry it/them home when they're heavier. Particularly in weather like we've just had.

Mon 18 Dec 2017, 09:12

Jon, that was a very interesting blog you sent us to. Actually I do use loose tea and dried herbs mainly for my teas. But tea bags we do use have been going on the compost heap for years with no noticeable effects, though I understand the plastic will be there.
On the herbs and spices, I do use Bean Bag in Witney occasionally, but try generally not to drive to shop.

Sun 17 Dec 2017, 13:03

On tea bags: moralfibres.co.uk/is-there-plastic-in-your-tea/

Sun 17 Dec 2017, 12:52

Bean Bag in Witney pack herbs and spices themselves into paper bags, and they are very cheap. You have to ask at the counter.

Sun 17 Dec 2017, 08:09

I found a lovely shop in East Devon selling loose herbs and spices into (plastic) bags in any quantity required. No reason why our own spice jars couldn't be refilled into receptacles of our choice.

Sat 16 Dec 2017, 11:16

Tea bags? Oh Lord. Assuming the tea is bio-degradable I shall have to add the dissection of used tea bags to my ever growing list of packaging to be separated into various pieces. Which bin should I put the disemboweled tea bags in? I assume that as it's flyaway it should go in the grey bin. If I decide not to spend part of my life slicing open tea bags which bin do I put the intact ones in. Sod it - I think I'll just drink coffee!

Sat 16 Dec 2017, 10:39

It is true that some types of plastic bottles can be used in fibre/textiles, however the plastic bottles collected around here get reprocessed back into secondary raw materials and used to manufacture new packaging such as drinks bottles and food trays with a recycled content. This closes the loop on this material and helps reduce the carbon impact of plastic packaging. WRAP has published a good blog on their website entitled Plastic: friend or foe? WRAP is also doing some good work on sustainable clothing/textiles, so worth a look. www.wrap.org.uk/blog/2017/11/plastic-friend-or-foe

Fri 15 Dec 2017, 17:57

Unfortunately I cannot provide a central Charlbury location. I'll gladly buy from anyone that can, as long as their wares are not price prohibitive..

Fri 15 Dec 2017, 12:58

I also generally only use water/vinegar/bicarb for cleaning now. I'd be interested in a re-fill set up if it were in relatively central Charlbury.

Fri 15 Dec 2017, 09:17 (last edited on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 11:04)

The company mentioned in the BBC piece :-)

People have been conditioned to think that soft is good, so everything has to be merino. But there are things you don't want soft for, you want hard wearing, and that's where the down type breeds (southdown, Oxford, Hampshire, Ryeland, even Cotswold) can be good. They're not merino soft, but they're still soft enough to make socks, or a jumper. But with clever marketing you could get a reasonable blend of fleeces from local sheep, send it off to a mill specialising in small amounts for spinning, get it knitted up into socks or woven into throws and market it as "Charlbury/West Oxfordshire wool....." most sheep round here are mules, but their fleece is still reasonably useable. Even the Torddu up at Rangers Lodge could have their fleece woven into hard wearing jackets, but there probably aren't enough of them to make it sensible.

It'd be good if something like that could be done, Tim's shop could sell that kind of thing. Or even woven shopping bags, which would be stronger than the cotton ones a lot of people use.

Fri 15 Dec 2017, 00:13

It really helps if one remembers that the search default had been changed from google to a technical service for a particular field ... doh. Here's the wool high insulating clothing material instead of down or artificial fibre:
www.hdwool.com/

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 23:50

Harriet, no idea we harboured such particular nodes of expertise - Charlbury never ceases to amaze me. I saw this article today on BBC, coincidentally:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42229842
Why demand for British wool is unravelling
I've got into a situation where almost all of my clothing - some over 20 years old and a lot of fleece - is wearing out all at once. Someone mentioned a down substitute and artificial fibre substitute for insulating cloth filling made of wool. I want to replace fleece... Any idea what it may be called cos my google-foo has failed thus far :-(

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 22:01

I would definitely support a local bulk buy/refill service.

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 20:29 (last edited on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 22:07)

In the ideal world we would all (possibly) try and avoid plastic, but how many of use who travel use bottled water because it is the only water we can trust when we are travelling?

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 19:32

Tea bags contain nonbiodegradable plastic unless you buy a brand like Pukka. Don't put them in your compost heap because the plastic will leach into the soil.

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 19:18

Sorry Vicky. I'll support you in such an initiative as much as I can. Do email me here.

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 19:14

Liz, we've been watching out for palm oil in foodstuff... nearly everything contains it. We stopped buying those things in a futile attempt no doubt but it makes you feel a bit better.
Happily at the Farmers' Market I bought a 130g pot of sweet paprika, admittedly in a plastic jar, at a very good price (£2.80). They have a website and I think I'll contact them to see if the can provide spices in glass jars (www.gospice.co.uk).

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 19:09

So agree Liz. In my day (many years ago!) we used newspaper and a few drops of vinegar in warm water to clean windows and mirrors. Actually much more effective than the modern chemical products.

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 19:06

And Hannen; I wouldn't be because?

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 18:52

James, I'm sure that you'd be the perfect person to set up the re-filling thingy. Thanking you in anticipation.

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 18:36

Sadly discovered that those lovely chocolate ginger biscuits that are everyone's favourites contain palm oil so can't eat them anymore!
On cleaning products, we barely use any these days. Amazing what water and a scrub can achieve.

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 18:34

Katie, I'm not sure if the milk dispensing machine linked to Nell's Dairy (near Stow) is still at Burford Garden Centre (in the Food Area there). You used to be able to take your own containers and fill them up. They also used to have dispensers at Kingham Plough, Cotswold Farm Park and you could also order online. But Nell's seems to have lost its web domain, and I'm not sure if they have also gone out of business.

I don't think there will be another large commercial operation, because Hanworth Dairy is the only glass milk bottling plant left in the UK. Milk&More was going to close it down when the firm was owned by Dairy Crest. They announced this in 2014; and M&M changed a lot of their customers to plastic bottles at that point.

But so many customers objected or cancelled their orders that Hanbury was left untouched after the sale of Milk&More to Müller. In 2016 Müller announced that glass bottles would remain integral to their operation. Hooray!

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 14:43

Does anyone know where you can but milk in glass bottles bigger than 1 pint? We also use the excellent Milk and More, but get through about 20 pints a week and don't have enough fridge space for that many pint bottles.

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 14:28

As long-term 'tiger protectors' we'd support any products that exclude 'palm oil from plantations which have destroyed the habitat of the Sumatran tiger.'

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 13:32

I was interested enough in what James wrote to look up the article. Very interesting idea. I'm willing to take this further, if there is enough genuine interest to make it a reality. The question is; who would be committed to buying such goods if I could arrange for them to be purchased from Cornbury Park? Walking or driving here is optional. Normal 9-5pm Mon-Friday? Poss. one later evening?

Thu 14 Dec 2017, 10:29

There's a refilling service based in East Oxford that we used to use - they have massive vats of cleaning and washing products as well as boxes of wholefoods that you fill your own containers up with.
https://www.facebook.com/sesi.oxford/
www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15086385.Refill_your_washing_up_liquid_at_the_veg_van_and_help_save_the_Sumatran_tiger/
I don't know whether they'd come to the next farmer's market or if anyone in Cby is keen enough to set the system up locally - they seem to run training sessions for people who want to replicate their model.

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 20:47

I've been to Lush and bought blocks of shampoo and conditioner, and now find that they sell tooth tabs - toothpaste without any kind of container. That's what I'm doing next.
I go to the Deli with my coffee jar and they refill it for me. Now we need them to look at how much stuff they sell in unnecessary packaging - like their herbs and spices. Refillable is easy.

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 18:22

Yes, Milk&More is excellent - especially in the snow. They manage to deliver (also food etc.) when nobody else is able to get through. I opt for glass, not plastic, for my milk: it's a choice you make on their website. It's more environmentally friendly, and it also tastes better too, as the cream rises to the top. Their orange juice also comes in glass.

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 17:21 (last edited on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 17:25)

Interesting, they deliver mine in plastic containers!!. Still an A1 service as you say Phil. Saying that you can make all sorts of weird gadgets from plastic containers,check out Utube
JH

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 16:21

Fully recommend milk in glass bottles. I get 10 per week delivered by Milk&More.
Great service - on the step by 5am and I pay by Direct Debit. Simples!

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 15:48

Rhona when I did the research for my first plastic bottle fibre demo it seems the only option for disposal is landfill or incineration, they're not recyclable. It's very clever marketing - convert it to fabric, use the words sustainable and recycled, get some fashion people to advertise their use of it and you've done your bit. It's now clothing/carpeting/furnishings, gets exported to the 3rd world when we don't want it any more and doesn't cause us any problems, because the shed fibres are too small to see..... And the manufacturers of Tim's throws admit they shed, IMO you'd have a hard time finding a fabric that didn't.

Never talk to me about textiles, plastic and the environment unless you've got all day :-)

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 14:18

What about 100 Charlbury houses signing up to "Milk and More" and getting their milk in glass bottles rather than plastic. If you are a typical household like us - say you use 2 bottles a week, rather than plastic bottles from the supermarket. That's 2 plastic bottles X 50 weeks or 100 plastic bottles replaced. If 100 households signed up - that 100 X 100 avoided plastic bottles or 10,000 bottles a year.

Also - if either Coop or Deli agreed to stock M&M bottles (the deli in my parent's village does) that could help as well. Oh and yes - they do sell organic milk in bottles. We've just put our first order in for a while. www.milkandmore.co.uk/home

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:54

James, I couldn't run to a hip flask, but the mug can contain all sorts of liquids.

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:53

So what should we do with out plastic bottles to get them recycled? And how come that tonnes of them end up in the ocean?

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:16

Hannen - no, I was more of a metal hipflask guy back in the 50s.

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:13 (last edited on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 23:31)

But what happens when you throw away the throw away?

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:14

And we sell throws (blankets) that are 100% made from recycled plastic bottles (takes approx 50 bottles per throw) as well as rugs to order,all with lovely colours, last few in stock.

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:52

Plastic bottles are recycled into fibre for insulation, stuffing and clothing. I have some which I use for spinning demos so people can see a bottle, the recycled fibre and the spun fibre.

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:30

James, did you not keep your enamel coated metal mug from your National Service days? I've been using mine since the 1950s. Take it with me everywhere.

Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:27

It is Helen, but if you scroll down you'll find some depressing stuff. I find the whole topic almost as confusing as the WODC waste collection scheme. I'm even more confused having picked up a bottle of Pepsi (plastic) and read on the label "Plastic bottle (sic) widely recycled". Recycled into what? More plastic bottles I assume.

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 19:51 (last edited on Tue 12 Dec 2017, 19:52)

This is an interesting and optimistic article:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/05/penzance-wins-first-plastic-free-status-award-to-help-clean-up-beaches

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 19:43 (last edited on Tue 12 Dec 2017, 19:45)

Any viscose fibre is unpleasant, whether it's from bamboo, seaweed, rose stems, sweet corn, or soya. It's all produced in the same way.

Hemp isn't ideal alone for this climate as it doesn't insulate, so you'd need wool as in insulator for winter. This is why in Japan where they have no naturally occurring sheep, plenty of bast fibre plants and silk was only for the rich, their winter clothes were rag woven.

Any acrylic fibre will shed on washing, but again something that people tend to do is assume cotton is an environmentally friendly, monoculture is never any good. If you can find a small scale producer then you're ok. The so-called environmentally friendly plastic bottle insulation is likewise not friendly, it's used in jackets and cheap duvets as well

This is why I don't intend to be plastic free, it's an impossibility in modern life.

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 18:36

Watch out for the bamboo cloth scam. Bamboo clothes are mostly made of viscose, for example, which is cellulose brought into solution FROM WHICH the fibre is drawn, not a naturally occuring fibre from which a thread can be spun. Most of the processes are very nastily environmentally indeed.

One of the best plants for naturally occuring fibres is cannabis or hemp (canvass, hemp cordage etc nameology derives from this plant family. Grows very well indeed in this climate, though don't bother trying to smoke cord hemp if that is what you are thinking... Sheep do quite well too, though here I have some sympathy for the re-wilding argument. Had wolves and bears 'round where I grew up and never lost a schoolmate to any...

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 18:23

I heard that every time you wash synthetic clothes microplastics get into the waste water. We should be wearing natural fibres as much as possible.

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 16:47

Fleece jackets leave microplastic everywhere..... Polyesters likewise. Will you all be wearing all natural materials like wool, linen, cotton and silk? Not bamboo because that's not an environmentally friendly textile.

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 15:44

Seriously though Charlbury Deli could give people a discount for bringing their own takeaway cups - maybe Tim at Cotswold Frames and Elaine at the (soon to be ex-)Post Office could offer a few different types of reusable takeaway cups to give people the idea.

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 15:41

"Never buying stupid pointless plastic children's toys ever again." I should think not with kids in years 2 and 6! ;-)

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 14:33

Bamboo toothbrush ordered. Never buying stupid pointless plastic childrens' toys ever again. Reusable water bottle to hand. Now we just need a grocery store where you buy in bulk and bring your own containers!!!

Mon 11 Dec 2017, 09:55

1. Yes. 2. No. 3. No.

Sun 10 Dec 2017, 22:52

How many saw Blue Planet II? Can you ever buy another plastic bottle? Buy another plastic bag?