20mph Charlbury

Sat 21 Mar 2015, 15:13

Liz, could the CNF please increase the contrast between text and background on their website, as it's not accessible. Black text is better than grey. The double spacing also makes it difficult to read.

I did look at it, and quite possibly I should send you this request via the website itself, but immediate eyestrain isn't conducive to using the site.

Sat 21 Mar 2015, 14:09

Please can I refer participants in this thread to the new CNF site? Look at the Movement page under Activities, and also at the Poynton film which demonstrates how new thinking can create amazing changes.

www.charlburyneighbourhoodforum.org.uk/?page_id=5

Fri 20 Mar 2015, 19:59

My understanding is that Shared surface and no street lighting is a tough sell to OCC..

Thu 19 Mar 2015, 18:11

[Followup postings which were of more general than Charlbury-specific interest moved to the Grease Pit --Richard]

Wed 18 Mar 2015, 23:07

At 5.50 pm today, i.e. "rush hour", I was sat in my car near the bottom of the Slade waiting to pull out when all was clear, when I saw a young man (early teens?) on a scooter (not a motorised one) belting down the Slade from the brow of the hill near the school, and going half way up before pulling over onto the pavement. He then joined 2 other lads and they went off towards Sturt Road. This all happened in a very short space of time as the young man concerned was doing an incredible speed, and could probably match a lot of cars. He was, I guess, doing what lads do. But riding a scooter on that particular road, and at a time when it was likely to be quite busy, definitely not a good idea. And a real hazard for legitimate road users. I would not want to be the car driver who encountered this type of unexpected activity, or the parent that answered the door to the police. Hence, this post.

Wed 14 Jan 2015, 22:12

I am joining the discussion rather late, but, as many have heard me say before, can something please be done about Sheep Street. The surface is appalling, but reference this discussion, how about getting rid of the pavements, and having "shared space"? At the moment cars park on the pavement anyway, which means that the pavements are unusable, since one has to walk down the centre of the street if pushing a pram, or even trying to walk with shopping. And we frequently have huge lorries getting stuck because their Sat Nav has sent them this way...which is why cars park on pavements!

Mon 12 Jan 2015, 13:54

When approaching the Slade/Enstone Road crossroad from The Slade there are warning signs and drivers should have no problem at all in navigating this junction.

However, it would greatly reduce the risk of accidents if a) the road markings were repainted (at present they are badly worn) and b) some thought is given to increasing the quantity and size of the warning signs.

Wed 7 Jan 2015, 15:47

In reply to Katie Russell, my comment in this thread about parking was but a final part of my whole post. The inconsiderate parking at the top of Church Street has the effect of obstructing the buses. Quite easy to link the parking and speeding under the general heading of road safety. Trolling, I think not, more of an over-reaction on your part methinks.

Wed 7 Jan 2015, 10:38

Many thanks to Reg for raising this issue with the Town Council. I agree that a 20mph is needed, in particular in the Slade. However it will not be adhered to by most drivers who will ignore it as they currently do the 30mph.
Traffic calming measures ,as they have in other towns , are the only answer to make our roads safer

Fri 2 Jan 2015, 16:28

I am not a fan of what I'll call 'creeping urbanisation'- similar to what Caroline says, and would prefer a 'shared space' approach as I think Russell mentioned early in this thread (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space).

Fri 2 Jan 2015, 12:31 (last edited on Fri 2 Jan 2015, 12:34)

Just as an aside, can I point out that with all these ideas due consideration should be given to the impact of the street furniture required to effect them? Traffic lights, speed bumps, yellow lines, blue boxes, numerous advisory and directional signs, parking restriction notices, mini-roundabouts: all of these have the potential to clutter the lovely streeets of the town. Please let's not dot the town with urban acne of this type if it's not wholly necessary.

Wed 31 Dec 2014, 00:56

I don't think a mini roundabout will help pedestrians there, and in fact, might make things worse if drivers are thinking only of other drivers' right-of-ways (speaking as someone who has nearly been mown down in Witney and Oxford at mini-roundabouts).

Mon 22 Dec 2014, 15:00

Please see the posting I have made on a new thread started by Tony Graeme

Sat 20 Dec 2014, 10:20

That's a good idea. Something badly needs to be done about that junction. People seem to be totally confused about who has right of way there, and often make mistakes.

Sat 20 Dec 2014, 06:43

I wonder if it would be possible to have a mini roundabout at the junction of Enstone Rd and The Slade? This would force all vehicles to stop and have to take notice of traffic and pedestrians. I realise there is not a lot of space, but I think it might be possible, such as the one in Chipping Norton West St and Burford Rd.

Fri 19 Dec 2014, 12:31

Lesley is right. Yesterday evening, a driver so misjudged his speed when turning left into The Slade from the Enstone Rd, that the car almost mounted the pavement (where I was standing, waiting to cross) on the opposite side of the road. Had any cars been waiting at the crossroads on the proper side of The Slade, there would definitely have been an accident -- probably injuring me also, as the pavement there is so poor.

Fri 19 Dec 2014, 09:25

I agree with Kat; the Enstone crossroads are very dangerous, especially in the winter when it is dark early. The extra street light has made it easier to see across the road, but this obviously does not stop the cars from speeding as they come into Charlbury. There has been a number of accidents with cars turning from the Enstone crossroads into The Slade, probably from going to fast and misjudging the turning. I believe it is only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured.

Thu 18 Dec 2014, 13:39

I'm not so aware of issues in Park Street and Market Street, etc, as I am at the corner of 9 Acres and Enstone Road. Crossing on any of the corners is a dangerous and blind thing to do. My Christmas wish is a for a zebra crossing so we don't have to take our lives into our own hands at that junction. It was even worse when I had prams or toddlers in tow, but even so, the fit and spry are just as vulnerable because it's so tricky to navigate as a pedestrian.

Tue 16 Dec 2014, 16:41

Well said Katie. I would rather have a lively town center, with families being picked up from nursery and people popping into shops, than a ghost-town with 100% clear pavements.

Tue 16 Dec 2014, 14:51

Philip, I don't see how you can link what you deem to be inconsiderate parking to the issue of speeding in Charlbury. Also as a mum of 2 kids, I really resent the idea that I only use my car to keep my kids dry! In a town like Charlbury, lots of children attending school and nursery will be from surrounding villages, such as Fawler, Leafield and Spelsbury and it's not very feasible to transport them other than by car (irrespective of the weather), particularly if you are also working. I'm not sure if you are deliberately trolling, but such comments are not helpful, especially given that mums with kids on board are probably the least likely group of drivers to be speeding in the town!

Mon 15 Dec 2014, 09:48

Admin note: I've expressly requested that cycling issues are kept out of this thread and I would reiterate that request before I have to start editing posts. Thank you.

Sun 14 Dec 2014, 22:38

Firstly, good to see a camera van enforcing the 30 limit in the Slade at least twice in the last fortnight. A chicane or similar outside Sandford Mount might work but could bring as many problems as it solves especially in winter. A 20 limit in the town centre is pretty much self-evident and self-enforcing, but do not expect much police enforcement of any 20 limit.

Charlbury is not on any through route of major significance, so it stands to reason that most road users (and offenders) live and/or work locally. It has fewer road safety issues than many other towns/villages in Oxfordshire.

For those cyclists who want to travel SE along Market Street I have two solutions, either WALK! or walk through the churchyard.

Finally, there has been a lot of inconsiderate parking of late, be it by school run mums whose little darlings mustn't get wet on their way to school, playgroup or nursery e.g. top of Church Street on the yellow lines or at the bottom of Nine Acre by people who want to dodge paying for parking at the station.

Fri 12 Dec 2014, 15:12

Unfortunately we can't accuse the buses and lorries even of exceeding a 20mph limit. They're often travelling at 5mph as they navigate up on to the pavement to squeeze past the parked cars. So it's more about what kinds of traffic are allowed to use Park Street.

Fri 12 Dec 2014, 14:32

Yes, I agree with you Chris - and also worry when buses and lorries actually drive ON the very narrow pavement down Park Street as parents and their young children make their way to and from the pre-school...

Fri 12 Dec 2014, 13:01 (last edited on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 18:15)

I would strongly support Reg James idea of a 20mph limit in the centre of town and Alice Millea's suggestion of better enforcement.

My heart misses a beat every time I see motorists travelling fast within inches of mothers and fathers taking very small children down to Pre-School on the narrow pavement in Park Street. It is a horrible accident waiting to happen. So yes,Reg please encourage the Town Council to take action. Well done mate.

Thu 11 Dec 2014, 19:55

May I suggest the introduction of a flag system that commences at the town signs on the 4 major roads into Charlbury.

If not that, and with the desire to preserve Charlbury's historic character, perhaps people living in the centre should only be allowed horse and cart has their means of transport. The garden society would also benefit.

I feel myself being expelled to the grease pit!

Thu 11 Dec 2014, 18:58

Could I kindly request that this thread is kept to discussion of a possible 20mph limit, rather than cycling, before (a) the issue is derailed, (b) I explode with frustration at the Daily Mail-lite attitudes being peddled (pedalled?) here. Thank you.

Thu 11 Dec 2014, 18:37

There are no signs in Charlbury for cycles to ignore the one way system, so presently they are breaking the law.

If you have a system where cars can go one way and bikes and people both ways in a narrow space like the centre of Charlbury, it becomes hazardous because the pedestrians don't know which way the relatively fast moving bikes are coming from, and probably cars would have the same problem, particularly given the fact that there is parking in Market Street to obscure the view. It may well work in a large spacious urban area, but people must realise that Charlbury is not a large urban area, it is a small Cotswold village. (Yes, I know it has a charter etc, but in the centre it is, in effect still a village and road planning should consider that) People live and visit here for that reason, because it is a small town/village with amenities, not a big urban space.

Thu 11 Dec 2014, 17:14

Hi Liz, no it isn't. It's a Red/amber/green traffic light that goes to red if the approaching vehicle has exceeded a preset speed limit. Presumably there is a camera at the traffic light so you can't drive through the red light. Unmanned speed control, job done!

Thu 11 Dec 2014, 17:05

Pedestrians have there own path, and until you get the little sign about cyclists then they are bound by the same rules as motorist, unless they are in Brussels!

Thu 11 Dec 2014, 16:49

In response to Tony about cyclists going the wrong way up Market Street. First, why was the one way system designed? Was it because there wasn't enough room for bikes to travel in two directions, or because there is not enough room for two cars? (and the parking space that cars also require? So you might ask yourself why cycles should be subject to the same restriction. In London and other cities (Brussels for one) streets are one way but a small sign shows cycles excepted. We don't expect pedestrians to follow the one-way system!

Thu 11 Dec 2014, 16:45

Hi Hans, Isn't that what we already have on the Slade and Woodstock Road? 30 sign lights if you are going too fast.

Wed 10 Dec 2014, 21:22

How about a traffic light speed control system - basically red light comes on if you speed? Swindon has apparently installed this www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9035291.Pioneering_traffic_light_scheme_set_to_replace_speed_cameras/

Wed 10 Dec 2014, 19:09

There are some really interesting ideas in this thread. I'm pleased to say that they are consistent with the kind of thinking we have been doing as Charlbury Neighbourhood Forum using the same expert who gave us the presentation at the workshop in March. We hope to work these up into some more detailed proposals to consult on. The school and its pupils are already engaged with ideas for the Slade.

Sat 6 Dec 2014, 20:52

I would totally support a 20 mph speed limit, especially on The Slade and Enstone Road. It is actually quite alarming to see how fast some people drive around the town. No doubt most offenders are through traffic so we need to find a way to encourage speeding drivers to slow down.

Sat 6 Dec 2014, 20:41

As someone local who drives around a bit few times a week I think as long as people keep their speed under 30mph it's all good. And about the reducing of pollution - 30mph at the 4th gear is much better than 20 at the third gear. Plus more stop and start (or slow and go) = more pollution....

Sat 6 Dec 2014, 18:32

I believe a 'shared space' idea (for pedestrians/cars/bikes) for the centre of town is the way to go, rather than spending money on new 20 mph signs, that would also get ignored. In places (I'm thinking Holland) where this has been done, peoples behaviour (and not just drivers) has changed and accidents significantly reduced.

For the Slade- as has been done in the village of Aynho, which had the speeding problems we have, let's take out the central lines and vary the width of the road. Although I was highly sceptical that those measures would work, they have!

Sat 6 Dec 2014, 17:47

A 20mph limit I believe has cut fatalities in Oxford and I cannot see any argument for not implementing this in the tight streets of Charlbury. Would it also be worth re-considering the one way system? Going two way might slow traffic and save the pollution arising from having to drive around the town?

Sat 6 Dec 2014, 13:44

I agree a 20 mph speed limit in charlbury would be a good idea also while they was at that maybe they could do something about the parking up Ticknell piece road from the junction from the main road upwards where people park mainly to pick children up from school in the afternoon,s as if your coming down you have to drive on the other side because of the cars

Sat 6 Dec 2014, 13:09

Perhaps at the same time we could do something more to discourage cyclists from riding the wrong way along Market St: Four of them this morning. All apparently old enough to know better, riding on and off the narrow pavement to the inconvenience of pedestrians and none with any means warn of their approach. I was always taught one should not ride without a bell but this requirement seems to be almost totally ignored by todays cyclists.
I suggest that it should be made illegal to buy, sell hire, or ride a bicycle not fitted with a bell or audible other warning device.The penalty to be 3 times the new replacement value of the bicycle.
Tony

Sat 6 Dec 2014, 10:20

Excellent idea. And long overdue. Not only the Slade but also the centre of town- Hixet Wood, Market Street, Park Street. Not pleasant walking when cars speed through without respect for other road-users, especially where there are no pavements.

Fri 5 Dec 2014, 20:23

I strongly agree with some traffic calming measures on The Slade. We have to exit our shared drive at the top of the brow on a blind bend, extreme caution is required, due to speeding traffic. A former neighbour twice had an accident trying to join the road. I would suggest that some physical calming, preferably other than speed humps, such as pedestrian refuges, making the road appear narrower - cycle lane? would discourage speeding. In reality, 30 mph is appropriate for the road but it is seldom respected and even more rarely enforced.

Fri 5 Dec 2014, 18:59

I think a speed limit of 20mph is a very good idea. Even if it is not obeyed to the letter, it will probably help slow down those who regularly break the 30mph speed limit.

Could more be done on the Slade to slow traffic down, e.g. islands blocking one side of the road like they have at the entrances to Witney and Stonesfield?

Fri 5 Dec 2014, 12:17

Whilst I applaud Reg's efforts to decrease speeds in the town centre, my greatest concern regarding traffic speed in Charlbury is on the Slade. It is perfectly clear there is a school on that road, with, at peak times, many children walking along the pavements either side, plus a 30mph speed-triggered illuminated sign; yet still they race along it at 45mph and more. Unfortunately, without enforcement, any speed limit is merely academic.

Fri 5 Dec 2014, 12:05

Working on a shared space project and a reduction of parking would be a better option. The introduction of residents park in the centre of town for the limited spaces might also address some issues.

It would also be useful to know the number and locations of RTAs in Charlbury to see if the issue is speed, perception or incident black spots.

Fri 5 Dec 2014, 11:46

If people don't obey a 30 mph limit is there any reason to suppose they'll observe one at 20 mph? It's the lack of enforcement that causes the problems, I think.

Fri 5 Dec 2014, 11:20

Having discussed this with several people in Charlbury I have proposed in the Town Council that a 20mph speed limit should apply to the town. The County Council has been approached and several procedures have to be gone through before this can happen - surveys & consultations - and of course there is a cost involved for this and for any signing, road markings etc.
The idea is that reducing speed will increase the safety of pedestrians and other road users, it could reduce pollution, and could reduce the rat-run traffic.
What people think about this?