Pooles Lane

Tue 17 Jun 2014, 09:43 (last edited on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 10:26)

I believe in tackling the things that can actually be realised. One idea I had was to have a proper pavement along Pooles Lane, which would get people out of the direct line of traffic and into their own space. The lane is gradually being taken over opposite our cottage by grass and nettles creating a perfect dogs' toilet, which is used regularly by some, not all, dog walkers. Could this not be cleared, allowing that space to be absorbed back into the road thereby giving space for a pavement on the other side? Effectively, that little bit of precious space has been given priority as a public animal loo.
A one-way system would be even more dangerous than it is now.

Tue 17 Jun 2014, 08:52

OK, here's another idea... How about a zebra crossing at the end of The Playing Close? It would certainly make it safer for children crossing every morning and afternoon at the start and end of school, as many come up the alley from Sheep Street and cross to Crawborough. Although it wouldn't actively force drivers to slow down all the time, they would see the Belisha beacons as they hurtle up Pooles Lane, which hopefully in most cases would provide a warning 'nudge' to slow down in case someone is about to cross. No speed bumps to annoy people, and no complicated re-routing of traffic.

Mon 16 Jun 2014, 20:29

Jean, in answer to your question, I don't think that most of the cars actually are breaking the limit. It's just that given the narrowness of the road, if you are standing on the edge with 2 small children and trying to make sure they don't move, 30 mph is way too fast to be safe.

Market Street is another place where I often feel that cars that may not technically be speeding are actually going faster than is safe, as the pavement is so narrow in places.

Mon 16 Jun 2014, 13:51

Simon, apologies for being negative put it down to Monday blues you're absolutely right this is clearly an important issue and why not strive for the best solution.
In my experience shared surfaces are usually reserved for feature squares, high/ market streets where the road is elevated to become part of the wider streetscape harmonising the setting for street markets or where the aesthetics are as important as the functionality thereby justifying the additional cost, (arguably Market Street or Sheep street would be better suited to this treatment). The other type of "shared surface" commonly seen is block paving which is usually dual purpose as it is permeable (so has an added drainage benefit) but given the steep gradient of the road this is unlikely to be possible.
OCC has a very comprehensive design guide for roads which is downloadable from their website. They should be able to provide you with a road type (which is defined by traffic flow) and appropriate treatment.
This section of road however breaks all the rules so would need a bespoke solution and to be very careful designed as I don't believe there is adequate width to have a safe footpath and roadway (which means you can't separate the two). There's a similar situation in Stonesfield where they've just white lined a footpath in the road which is over-run by buses etc. The narrowness and steepness of roadway may lessen the effectiveness of chicanes and obstacles in sections which pretty much leaves you with "Changes in Vertical Alignment" or speed bumps which always receive a fairly mixed reception.

Mon 16 Jun 2014, 12:09

To dismiss a different approach to solving a problem as being 'not being part of our mindset' is discouragingly negative. Excuse me while I go and organise someone with a red flag to walk ahead of the 7.22 from Paddington this evening.

As far as maintenance is concerned, having a properly designed and constructed surface is the key. Just because our local councils who have responsibility for looking after our roads seem incapable (for whatever reason) of doing so effectively is not a justifiable excuse not to try. After all, when was the last time that Pooles Lane was dug up for new utilities - or to put a decent running surface on it, for that matter? Again, if towns on the continent can do it properly, so can we.

Mon 16 Jun 2014, 10:21

The European shared surface, as attractive as the concept and look of it is, is not suited to our highways. It is not compliant with the very onerous highways and disability regulations and what's important is that its not part of our mindset so although it alerts drivers it would need to be reinforced with signage/ white lining etc, which detracts from the look.

Its also cost prohibitive as councils don't have the money to do it and in the very few times they do, actually maintain it as you see in every UK City when they dig up paving or it fails it is hardly every replaced like for like and ends up looking like a dogs dinner.

Planters etc are highly dangerous as they hide children/ pets that can dart out. Although this does usually slow drivers the risk is not worth taking on.

A simple and effective solution is used at Ayhno where they have varied the highway width with white-lining and kerb alignments, simple but very effective. However my understanding is that OCC are against this types of treatment altogether.

Although I can see the logic I feel a one-way system, given that system that is already in place, is likely to have a wider impact on the town centre traffic. Another solution might be to have a turn left only out of Pooles Lane which might reduce through-flow traffic but may lead to an increase on those using the market street - nine acres loop.

Unfortunately every action has a reaction and transport models which programme in all the data and analyse the traffic flow are rarely bang on.

Mon 16 Jun 2014, 08:14

If people don't obey a 30 mph speed limit how likely is it they will obey a 20 mph limit?

Sun 15 Jun 2014, 20:18

Before more radical ideas are suggested which may cause more problems for the residents of Pooles Lane and inhibit access for Emergency Vehicles,why not try more effective signage. Large SLOW DOWN signs or a 20mph limit. Perhaps an occasional Police presence?

Sun 15 Jun 2014, 09:57

I'm not a proponent of shared space because I suffer from (mild at the moment) visual impairment and shared space isn't inclusive. It's designed for and by people who have no vision problems. I have first hand experience of this, having lived in Sweden. Charlbury has a large elderly population at least some of whom will have similar problems to me. IMO the best thing for Pooles Lane is traffic calming of some kind, although I'm not sure what would be the best measure.

Peter's suggestion of planters may be a good idea, but at the same time the chicanes in Hughes Close aren't placed ideally, so very careful thought will need to be given to the placement of anything like that.

Sat 14 Jun 2014, 21:16

Well said Simon! I believe the shared surface idea has also recently worked with great success for residents of one street in north Oxford. As a first step in Pooles Lane I would like to suggest an option that could be implemented without great expense, would be attractive and should prove very effective, especially for vulnerable pedestrians crossing at the Crawborough end of the Playing Close.
A couple of strategically placed planters could provide safe refuges for pedestrians to enable them to "see and be seen" before crossing the road at the same time as forcibly slowing traffic and providing effective disincentives to through traffic. This must surely be preferable to additional regulations which cannot be effectively enforced but would require additional ugly street furniture.

Sat 14 Jun 2014, 09:33

We're all still in the mindset of having cars and pedestrians competing for the same restricted space. A shared surface, with sufficient disincentives for drivers to go too fast built in to it, offers an alternative approach. It's a system that works well in small town centres throughout Europe, so why not here?

Fri 13 Jun 2014, 23:44

A good point about a one-way system perhaps increasing speeds, which admit I had not thought about, as I just posted on a bit of a whim, thinking more about the problems I see when I drive along Pooles Lane, rather than simply the speed of cars.

I have to admit, however, that it is a long time since I personally have seen any real speeding along there; perhaps I only drive it at times when the speeders are not around.

Fri 13 Jun 2014, 20:55 (last edited on Fri 13 Jun 2014, 20:56)

Can people please stop mentioning speed humps as the noise made by cars going over them would be really annoying especially as mine and my daughters bedrooms are at the front of our house. As for blocking one end I really don't think this is a good idea. Maybe as others have said marked pedestrian areas would be a start.

Fri 13 Jun 2014, 19:13

I think the key to a solution is to make it more difficult for drivers to ignore the needs of pedestrians who are using the same space. I think one way to do that would be to somehow indicate a footpath on the road - showing there is dedicated space for pedestrians, that cars are allowed to use too because the road is narrow. But that pedestrian use is strongly signalled and thus more protected. Cars often behave as if they own the road, and it should be made clear that in shared spaces they don't, as traffic needs to adjust to the slowest and most vulnerable users of the space.

Fri 13 Jun 2014, 18:45

I agree that even 20mph is too fast along the narrow bit of Pooles Lane. And I also strongly think a one-way system would make matters worse. I am tempted to agree to blocking it off as it would make it lovely to walk along (did you mean just one block point, or a section where it is for pedestrians only?) but I think it would make deliveries to our house very difficult. Reversing would just mean problems for people on the corner of Fishers Lane - imagine a big lorry trying to reverse round the corner there. So I think some kind of traffic calming - not against speed bumps personally - and a strict v low speed limit for the narrow bit e.g. 5 miles per hour would be best.

Fri 13 Jun 2014, 17:19

Angus -- true for people living in Sheep Street, but not for anyone else because they wouldn't be in Sheep Street in the first place if they were going in those directions.

Fri 13 Jun 2014, 16:06

Ah-ha! The key word in Helen's post is "enforced". And to be fair, even 20 mph is often too fast along there, especially when there are pedestrians/children/prams/pets trying to find a safe place to stand.

Fri 13 Jun 2014, 14:44

I am not persuaded by the one-way argument, as this would surely increase the speed of the traffic. I am also not convinced by the idea to block off the road at the Playing Close - why should the inconsiderate minority cause difficulties for residents. An enforced 20 mph limit would be my first choice.

Fri 13 Jun 2014, 14:28

Angus -- true for people living in Sheep Street, but not for anyone else because they wouldn't be in Sheep Street in the first place if they were going in those directions.

Fri 13 Jun 2014, 13:41 (last edited on Fri 13 Jun 2014, 13:45)

f you reverse the one way in Fishers Lane or block off Pooles Lane half way then people travelling along Sheep Street would have to go all round to Fiveways to access the Burford and Chippy roads. Very inconvenient!

Fri 13 Jun 2014, 13:07

I used to walk along Poole's Lane several times a day. I think making it one-way would be lethal for the reasons people have given. Blocking it at the Playing Close sounds a very good idea. Occasionally a large delivery vehicle would have to reverse but they are used to this.

Would also reversing the one-way direction in Fisher's Lane be a good idea to make the whole system function better?

Thu 12 Jun 2014, 23:03 (last edited on Thu 12 Jun 2014, 23:20)

If anything Andrew making it one way would make it worse as cars would know there was nothing going to be coming the other way. What seems to happen is most of them come of the bend on dancers hill and can see nothing coming so they just put their foot down, some of the worst offenders are i'm sad to say local or work in the spendlove center, many times while walking my kids to and from school I have seen or heard a car coming too fast and I walk out into the middle of the road to force them to slow down and have been abused either verbally or with some very rude gestures, so far none have had the balls to get out of their cars and talk about the speed they are doing though.

Thu 12 Jun 2014, 21:44

I am surprised that nobody has so far mentioned the possibility of at least making Pooles Lane one way only.
That may not be a traffic calming measure in itself, but I often am amazed that it is still two-way, and at times it can cause great problems, both in the narrowest parts and also for vehicles wanting to turn right leaving Pooles Lane from opposite the Coop store when another vehicle wishes to turn left when coming down Browns Lane, (or is it Enstone Road at that point;not sure where one becomes the other.)

Sorry if that has gone a bit off topic.

Thu 12 Jun 2014, 17:29

The concern is about inappropriate speed; blocking off one road simply shifts the problem to another.

Thu 12 Jun 2014, 15:42 (last edited on Thu 12 Jun 2014, 15:43)

Blocking off one end is not really a good idea as lorries still need to deliver to those of us that live on pooles lane and there is nowhere for them to turn around, maybe making it a 20 mph zone and some form of traffic calming (please not speed humps). Barring that maybe the police would lend me one of their stingers.
Also although this is nothing to do speeding but a large sign opposite fishers lane reminding drivers that it is a 2 way street would be a good idea.

Thu 12 Jun 2014, 15:09

It looks like the county council just got rid of some of the speed-calming measures in Pooles Lane by filling in the bigger potholes ....

Seriously, though - what Tony is suggesting offers a possible solution. However, maybe it needs to be considered as an integral part of a wider review of how the traffic system in the town centre actually works - which is where the ideas emanating from the workshop that took place a while ago come in. I'm not sure that it would be sensible just to block off one street without looking at town-centre traffic management as a whole. Speed humps are not necessarily the best approach to traffic calming, especially if you have the misfortune to live next to one and hear the thump-thump every time a vehicle goes past.

Thu 12 Jun 2014, 14:01

Interesting idea. We live just off Pooles Lane, have small children and regularly despair at the speed of cars where it narrows near the Playing Close. Saying that blocking it off would not inconvenience people sounds a bit of a sweeping statement though and would probably make deliveries to us and our neighbours even more complicated than they already are - it's also hard to foresee all the potential consequences. Couldn't we just have traffic calming measures such as speed bumps instead..?

Thu 12 Jun 2014, 13:41 (last edited on Thu 12 Jun 2014, 16:45)

My Sister lives in Pooles Lane and when visiting her I quite often find it's a matter of practically jumping in and out the car because of cars coming at speed down hill. Prior to my sister becoming house bound she literally took her life in her hands when venturing outside her gate which is on a steep slope directly on to the road.
I do not know the best way to resolve this problem!

Thu 12 Jun 2014, 10:28

Several people have expressed concern over the speed of some traffic using Pooles Lane . I would agree with this and have found that when pushing a pushchair or with young children it can be quite alarming. I suspect that most of these are not residents of Charlbury but just going to the Town Centre.
I would propose that in fact there is no reason for Pooles Lane to be a through road. The sign at the top of Dancers Hill already says'no access to Town Centre" but is usually ignored.
If Pooles lane was to be blocked off at the Playing Close it would not inconvenience residents, deliveries or emergency services. Anyone wanting to go to the Town Centre can go via the Slade and Enstone Road.
In fact this is what I always do now if I want to drive to the Centre.
I would like to know people's views on this particularly residents of Pooles Lane