Charlbury Primary School

Sun 18 May 2014, 12:58

Maybe parents should ask their County Councillor, Rodney Rose (email Rodney.Rose@oxfordshire.gov.uk) to convene a public meeting with himself and relevant OCC employees to discuss the issue. This has happened in the past over the new primary school and the closure of the Spendlove. A letter to Cameron is better than an email.

Sat 17 May 2014, 20:54

Just one other thing (sorry, I know this isn't my fight), but I've just been told about this very good briefing on the risks associated with free schools. In case anyone's thinking about it, I thought I should share: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxKRZn_uC5krWWw5d2E1emtNZ1E/edit

Tue 13 May 2014, 11:41

But the question is: is this a temporary demographic 'bulge' or a longer term shift? If it's the former, there are questions of staffing to take this larger cohort of children through their time at the school; and if the latter, then it suggests the school would really need to be maybe 50% bigger than at present for the forseeable future.

OCC ought to have figures for projected need over the next few years, but there's the added issue of the numbers of people moving into the area with babies and preschool age children, which would be much harder for the council to project in advance.

Janet's idea is good - although I suspect DC's answer would be to suggest a free school, which doesn't solve the basic problem that people want a single community school, one school gate, as it were....

Ideally the school (or all local primaries) could get together with local parents and talk through the issues and options.

Mon 12 May 2014, 20:15

Temporary classrooms have improved a great deal since the old days and also there are semi-temporary buildings which are very well insulated but reasonably quick to put up. I don't think it's an insuperabl problem.

Mon 12 May 2014, 11:09

Perhaps it is time to lobby David Cameron, if this has not been done already. He does take up issues presented to him. But he can only do this if he is told the reality of what is going on and told how very unhappy some of his constituents are. However, best to contact him directly at the Houses of Parliament.

Sun 11 May 2014, 12:58

I suspect that Oxfordshire County Council is quite happy for the current situation to continue. OCC is unusual in that it has kept a lot of small village schools open, which is commendable, but the economics are increasingly difficult for small schools. If Charlbury children have to go elsewhere, that helps ensure the viability of neighbouring schools where there might not be enough kids in the village itself. But it's a crying shame for Charlbury.

Perhaps (much though I'm no fan of Gove and all his works) Charlbury could have a free school? It would need premises in the centre of town, ideally open-plan accommodation where the landlords are seeking a change of use. If there were playing fields nearby that would be good. A brand new sports hall alongside would be even better, and maybe a library for the kids to use.

You could call it - ooh, I don't know - the Spendlove School?

(and no, for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not serious)

Sun 11 May 2014, 11:42 (last edited on Sun 11 May 2014, 12:51)

I thought everyone might be interested to see this article: Charlbury's part of a much bigger problem, which is not the school or even OCC's fault. Makes me so cross, when it's children and their families being affected. www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/classroom-controversy-zealot-michael-gove-accused-of-lunacy-in-free-schools-budget-row-9350075.html

Fri 2 May 2014, 15:07

Kat, mixing classes of different ages still goes on in many local schools including Finstock and Little Tew, however if there isn't the physical space at the school for extra classrooms, it wouldn't help. Portacabins would be one option, but that would be pretty grim in winter.

Fri 2 May 2014, 10:37

The word is Chad are taking a years group of 20 this year, at least five of which I know are from Charlbury. They have some flexibility as they haven't filled there maximum allocations in previous years.

Fri 2 May 2014, 00:32 (last edited on Fri 2 May 2014, 00:36)

I agree that this is a ridiculous situation, TBH. For one thing, incredibly un-green -- just look at the long line of cars on the Slade at 8:30 am and 3 pm, many of which have arrived from outside of the parish boundary. This problem of being over-subscribed has gone on for quite a number of years, so I should think it's time for the school to get creative about its allocation of places. I seem to remember in the past that the school would group two years together in two separate classes (in other words, 2 classes of mixed years) so as to even out the numbers and ensure that a more populated year could combine with a less-populated, and still accommodate the kids who had applied. Alas, I fear the national curriculum has probably put paid to this. Moreover, I suspect that it's gone beyond a bit of a tweak here and there, needing an overhaul and longer strategy to get the local kids into their local school. (As an aside regarding the homeschooling thing from earlier in the thread, I just wanted to point out that lots of mums who homeschool are able to (or even have to) earn money as well, and the kids are able to contribute heavily to the local community in a variety of ways, but that wouldn't satisfy the desire to have the pow-wow at the school gate, etc, I have to admit to that. I'm not adding this to change your mind, Jody, but to allay perhaps a misconception in case someone else was interested in it as a viable alternative to attending school in another village).

Thu 1 May 2014, 23:15

Is it true that they have increased the in-take at Chad to accommodate the extra children? I also thought the school received over 60 applicants so that is surely enough to fill 15 spots.

Thu 1 May 2014, 18:22 (last edited on Thu 1 May 2014, 18:33)

Reading all the Posts here and thinking how sad and stressful it must be for parents, I am watching Meridian News and there just happened to be a report on a similar situation in Caversham,Reading where parents are setting up a school through the Free Schools programme! Now I have absolutely NO idea how this works and what it involves, but just wanted to mention it as it seemed such a coincidence.

Thu 1 May 2014, 16:30

I wasn't suggesting you cycle every day Jodie, driving is perfectly acceptable sometimes. And as for being defeatist, I wouldn't know. I only have cerebral palsy.

I'd guess the problem is finding enough space for new classrooms. Is there enough space on the site?

Thu 1 May 2014, 15:11

Helen, that's a really good point if a little difficult to compute, with all the current issues, as the boundary for Chippy/ Woodstock secondary schools is between Charlbury/ Stonesfield.

Thu 1 May 2014, 13:49

Looking further ahead, parents who want Charlbury Primary but who have not been offered a place, might wish to bear in mind that the transition to secondary school is much easier for children if they are moving together with the majority of their classmates - so as a second choice of primary,choose one that is also in the catchment of the preferred (usually catchment)secondary school. This is making a choice for an event a long way in the future I know - but might be worth considering. There is increasing cooperation between secondary and primary partnerships, and whilst you may not get your first choice of primary, you are very much more likely to get your first choice of secondary school in West Oxfordshire.

Thu 1 May 2014, 13:37 (last edited on Thu 1 May 2014, 13:43)

OCC's Stance: The need for additional school places in the Chipping Norton partnership (the local school planning area) had been identified as the following extract from the council's Pupil Place Plan demonstrates:

"Primary schools in this partnership [Chipping Norton] overall have been operating broadly in line with the county council's target level of spare places for rural areas [12%], but demand for places is forecast to grow in 2013/14. There is sufficient capacity within Chipping Norton town, but housing development in surrounding villages is expected to generate demand for school places which exceeds current admission numbers. The county council therefore seeks to commission an additional 0.5 forms of entry [15 places per year group] through expansion of Hook Norton Primary School, where a feasibility study has been conducted. Future housing developments across the area should expect to contribute towards increasing primary school capacity.

Summary:
12% of local primary school places are spare.
They have invested in Hook Norton to address an increase in numbers this year.
Problem solved.

Really its up to the Town Council to stand up, if they believe this to be a issue worth looking at, and look at how Charlbury School can best serve its community as well as being part of the OCC equation/ juggling act.

Thu 1 May 2014, 13:17 (last edited on Thu 1 May 2014, 17:17)

(self removed for being a little overly negative) apologies.

Thu 1 May 2014, 13:13

Glena, I totally agree with you, and it would appear to be totally illogical that Charlbury is oversubscribed whilst the other local school lack investment due to low intake. Surely this is a great reason to invest in the surrounding schools to reduce the demand on Charlbury. As as result of this the Council will have to pay our transport costs, which are significant especially when you consider there are nine children in total this year. I believe it would be better to spend this on improving the schools.

I know one child this year who is third generation Chalbury, who's grand-parent and parent both went to Charlbury School but they didn't get in despite as a family living in Charlbury for at least three generations.

My understanding is that they can increase the intake but only as a multiple of 15no. (for staffing reasons) and as there is only nine of us this will not happen.

I am informed we are relatively high on the waiting list so may still get in, although this may change. Having discussed things with OCC the advice we've been given is "not to buy a uniform yet". We've got to start broaching the subject soon with our son but we don't know which open day to attend or who to tell him he's going to School with as that's all anyone's talking about. The uncertainty is probably worse than the end result as we're lucky to have two good Schools we're in limbo between. Due to this we may have to give up on Charlbury at some point and commit to the place we have been offered elsewhere. The problem with that though is our second child is out of catchment for that school so may not get in.. . .. and so the spiralling continues.. . .. .

Thu 1 May 2014, 12:59

My daughter went to Chadlington, she had friends in both Charlbury and Chadlington and it's quite possible to arrange ad hoc visits to Charlbury from Chad, and chat at the school gate. At least, I had no problem managing it! And several times in the summer in her final 2 years she walked home from school via the Oxfordshire Way (not by herself though). Cycling in with your child is also an option.

Thu 1 May 2014, 11:35

I taught for c. 30 years but not in primary schools so this may be not helpful or relevant----is it not possible to increase the size of Charlbury school ? I am so sad about this thread----my daughters have wrestled with the London situation where you sometimes have to live c. 6 metres from the school gate of a 'good' school (I exaggerate but not much)and in my ignorance I thought the country was very different.Certainly I know Finstock was anxious at one time to have more children so as to increase the number of teachers and improve their facilities. Surely even a temporary classroom would be OK if it would ensure that all children living in Charlbury could go to school here.

Thu 1 May 2014, 09:30

And Suzie, Both Charlie and My children are outside the catchment areas for our offered school places, so there is no guarantee that our second children will be offered a priority place at either Stonesfield or Chadlington when their time comes around. We could end up with a second school run to another village even further away... My fingers are so firmly crossed for a waiting list place to com up for us in the next two years it's difficult to type. Mind you, if someone moves into Charlbury with a child the same age, closer to the school than us, we won't get that place regardless of how long we've been living in the village or waiting on the list.

Thu 1 May 2014, 08:56

Unfortunately it's not really about the feasibility of travel to other villages. - we do all have family cars I think, though in our household only one driver so all transport issues rest on me (unless we take up the council's taxi offer, solo taxi trips for my four year old with a stranger? Not my ideal situation). The real point is that we all wanted and hoped that our children would become active members of the village school and through that active members of our village community. I'm not saying that because we didn't get a place we'll never see other Charlbury children, or parents and will retract into our living rooms never to emerge, we live in Charlbury and love it, but not being able to walk to school, chat at the school gate, arrange ad hoc play dates, and all the other slow-living benefits is a blow to us. Driving to other villages clogs their streets and makes for a far more impersonal and separated experience. As I try to teach my children to walk as much as possible, be environmentally conscious and responsible a twice daily school run is galling to me.

Regarding Home schooling, if the schools around us were poor quality in terms of their educational and community provision I would strongly consider it. But they're not and I believe deeply that supporting a local comprehensive education system is important and beneficial to both students and their wider village communities. Unless home school parents are paid in some way I think we would also struggle financially - I need to work to help with our household bills, food, etc. not to mention the fact that I love my job and want to continue as a professional individual for my own sanity.

Thu 1 May 2014, 01:06

Dare I stick my neck out here ...? If there is anyone who hasn't got into Charlbury and really can't feasibly transport kids to other villages, it is one option to think about home educating a child. There is a nice, thriving community of home-edders in Charlbury and nearby villages, not to mention a rather large community in Oxfordshire as a whole. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I mention it in case people hadn't thought of it. Just pm me if you want more info about the ins and outs of home-ed.

Wed 30 Apr 2014, 23:02

Thanks suzie it's really tricky but great to have an open discussion going about it all. I'm sure there's lots of debate on these issues in councils and the current arrangement is the best scenario but can't harm to ask the questions.

Wed 30 Apr 2014, 22:47

Hi Charlie - hopefully then that rule will apply for you when your second child comes to apply for Chad? Hope it all works out for you, it really is such a tricky and worrying thing.

Wed 30 Apr 2014, 22:37

Suzie, This applies If you have already have another sibling at the school, your child gets priority in this instance. 15 of this years places were taken up by this priority which does not consider any distances, simply to be within catchment. I know it's hugely complicated but I think going forward the catchment area will have to be looked at.

Wed 30 Apr 2014, 22:24

Charlie - rest assured, children from villages outside Charlbury wouldn't be given priority over children closer to the school who live in Charlbury. The catchment rules are that places are allocated to children closest to school first. In recent years the school's places haven't all been filled by children in Charlbury, so those from slightly further away, like Fawler or Stonesfield have got places - my two children included. But for this coming year's intake, if children as close to school as Nine Acres haven't even got in, there definitely won't be children from outside Charlbury joining, it just unfortunately means that there are more Charlbury-resident children than places this year.

School applications are without doubt one of the most stressful things so anyone who hasn't got their first choice school has my utmost sympathy but do have faith as the continued interest lists do sometimes yield places, there is often movement before September and even as late as January sometimes so all may not be lost.

Wed 30 Apr 2014, 21:24

The only thing I can see to tackle this in the future is to reduce the catchment size as Charlbury is beyond capacity. This would put added pressures on other local schools like finstock, stonesfield, chadlington though. At the moment it seems illogical that someone who lives in Charlbury has to travel to an another school to make way for, (to pick one of a few places and no offence meant) children from Fawler or spelsbury who are actually closer to the other schools than Charlbury. All highly political and complicated though I'm sure but this appears to be a problem that is only going to get worse.

Wed 30 Apr 2014, 15:21

I have lived in Charlbury for four years and two of these years children on Thames Street and Dyers Hill have not got a place at the school. It is such a shame that Nine acres close is now added to this list.

My questions are:

1. Are people happy to have a school that can no longer meet the needs of everyone in the community?

2. What other effects does this have on Charlbury?

3. Can anything be done?

Fri 18 Apr 2014, 21:50

I second your feelings entirely Charlie, we too are out in the cold without a place at the hugely remote distance of Nine Acres Close, not that that should matter. For us too the issue of our second child and where she might fit looms in a couple of years. As far as I can tell, from the stats available, applications have exceeded places for the last three years. This year there were 61 applications for the 30 places. Some of those were admittedly not first preferences, of those that were, 5 were from outside charlbury. I think there are 9 disappointed charlbury families this year.

I can think of no easy fixes here but it does perhaps seem time to explore the possibility of expanding the capacity of our popular school, it is no longer serving all the families that need it.

Fri 18 Apr 2014, 13:41 (last edited on Sat 19 Apr 2014, 19:11)

That is definitely a hard situation to be in. I have heard the headmistress say that all children in Charlbury will always get a place at the school, but given that who gets in is determined by the local authority not the schooI I have wondered what grounds she had for the claim. It clearly isn't the case. Let's hope that once the places are shuffled about you get a place at Charlbury.

Fri 18 Apr 2014, 09:58

Anna, if only that were true, the order of priority for in intake of 15 places is:
Children with special circumstances
In catchment with siblings a the school
In catchment nearest first
Outside catchment with siblings a the school
Outside catchment nearest first.
I'm trying not to think about the various scenarios that might play out in a couple of years time as who knows what our situation will be by then. But one thing is for sure we are left frustrated and disappointed by it all.

Fri 18 Apr 2014, 09:10

I hope I can reassure you about Chadlington, at least. Schools always (I believe) favour siblings of existing pupils over new families, regardless of where they live. Your second child will have no trouble getting into Chadlington if your first is already there.

Thu 17 Apr 2014, 13:14

Thanks Katie, I know my rushed post might appear to be a rant but really we're just very frustrated by the lack of communication and the uncertainty for our second child. If we lived in Chadlington we're be delighted to send our son there as we really like it as a school, problem is we've settled in Charlbury but Dyers Hill is too far away from the school, so we're left stranded in no-man's land. Added to this with the recent doubling in required housing provisions for WODC this is a problem that is only going to get worse.

Thu 17 Apr 2014, 12:51

I do sympathise, it's an awful problem. I'm not sure how much Charlbury school could be expanded in the space available though as there really aren't spare classrooms there.
Looking at the stats for 2012, you would seem to have been particularly unlucky this year.

Hopefully, you might yet get a place as there is a surprising amount of moving around after the letters go out. Our daughter was originally offered a place at Stonesfield, but we did get in to Charlbury at the last minute as did one other in her year.
Good luck!

Thu 17 Apr 2014, 10:43

We are one of the, as I understand it, several disappointed parents who weren't offered a place at the school despite living in Charlbury. I appreciate it all boils down to a numbers game but as this is a small community at which the school and its associated activities/ events are at the heart of so being left out in the cold is disappointing firstly for our son, but secondly for us as a family.
We are now left feeling ostracised and apparently fighting against our friends for places if they do become available.
Despite the denials from the school this is an issue which every parent has know about for years now due to the sheer number is the local nurseries, indeed over the last year or so when at the park there's been a slightly inquisitive undertone to conversations with unknown parents, where "how old is he, where do you live" has a more of a question than an ice-breaker.
It would be really good to know how many parents or in this situation and perhaps as a collective we can ask the school governors what they knew about the issue, and why nothing has been said or done to help the situation.
Whilst our son got into Chadlington, which is a great school which we are really happy with we are now left with a possible future problem as we are out of catchment for Chadlington so our second child may not get in there or Charlbury!??!!?
I know appeals, waiting lists etc are possible but we're now left with more questions and concerns that ever and no one in the community appears to be standing up and recognising the problem, Following advice from Liz Leffman I will write to the town council but in the meantime if anyone wants to let me know they are in the same boat that would be really helpful.