Community ownership of many useful things

Thu 23 Aug 2012, 15:25 (last edited on Thu 23 Aug 2012, 15:27)

About those drums stored at SHED: I have now been in email contact with Ross Moore who set up the Dadadrum group.

Ross explained that he moved away from Charlbury to Yorkshire over 5 years ago, & that he was unaware that Dadadrum was still listed on the website (until this morning!).

He said that when he left the drums were in the care of Charlbury's community drumming group -- Osrani -- to whom the drums belong. He assisted them in applying to the lottery for funds for the drums and also provided some training in using them. Legally, as 5 years have now past, the drums belong to the group and not to the lottery. He said that the usual procedure with these things (if the group Osrani has disbanded) is that the drums are given to/used by a similar community group.

He has given me some local contact details for the former members of Osrani, & both he and I are following up on these. It does not look as if there will be a possibility of selling off the equipment for the benefit of the community, but I'll update this thread with any news on this once things are clearer.

In the meantime, if there are local groups or schools (esp. in Charlbury) who might have an interest in having this equipment passed on to them, please email me & I will pass on this information to the Osrani contacts.

Wed 4 Jul 2012, 12:40

I've heard no more. I expect some people would rather keep quiet, even if they know something.

This kind of thing happened with film projectors a few years ago. Village communities could apply for grants to buy projectors (around £5-6k each) to show films in their village hall. Many of these ventures folded quickly. What happened to the equipment? The British Federation of Film Societies doesn't know.

Tue 3 Jul 2012, 16:55

Has the ownership of those drums stored in The Shed been sorted out yet? Whilst I was up in Scotland last week, I talked to a friend who moved to Glasgow, but who used to belong to that drumming group, Osrani, which used the drums.

She suggested Nikki Jackson (who was mentioned below & who still seems to be running Yoga Focus in Charlbury) as the person to contact. My friend was very clear that because the drums were bought with a community grant, they should be passed onto a group which could put them to good use. She was in fact very surprised that it wasn't all sorted out ages ago.

Sun 6 May 2012, 20:45

Thanks Valou. Have now read up on the scheme at the Chippy website. I suppose my instinct is that something more specific to Charlbury is particularly appealing, especially given this thread. But I will try to come to the meeting if I can. And maybe if some of the people writing here do too, there could be scope for something more community-focused?

Sun 6 May 2012, 20:20

Andrew, it is not new. The scheme's full name is the Four Shires LETS, and covers a very wide area. The meetings are held in various towns in turn, and Charlbury hosts two meetings a year. There are posters up ahead of the meetings, which are also advertised on the Events page of this website... although I have not yet done so for the next meeting, but it will be very soon. There are only a handful of members based in Charlbury, and it would be great to have more members to create a real dynamic in town. Everybody will be most welcome to attend the meeting on the 21st May, with no obligation to join the scheme on the night. Just come and hear more about this worthy scheme.

Sun 6 May 2012, 20:02

Valou, is the LETS a new proposal for Charlbury? (I assume so, not having heard it being mentioned before, but maybe I've missed it.) Anyway, sounds like a mixture of (a) notices re lendable equipment and (b) LETS-style skill bartering covers all the bases.

Sun 6 May 2012, 12:52

Not sure why I said strong chap, (so sexist!) I meant to say strong willing person!

Sun 6 May 2012, 12:16

I think the ideas are great, and I would like to start the ball rolling. I would like to borrow a fork and spade for a day or two this week, as I have strong friend, who's able to dig up my plants. I have Thames Water digging up my yard, next Thursday, so this gives me a chance to dig up the mint, that's taking over my garden. Or even borrow a strong man with both, a spade and fork,for svs and in return would be willing to offer my baking services. I am extremely low on funds, due to my illness and have just had to give up work, once agin. So I have the time, but no funds or strength. I really would be so appreciative.

Sun 6 May 2012, 11:34

Jon - I think the solution there is to offer the option for "wants" as well as "offers". Without wanting to get hung up on the specifics of it being a chainsaw, let's say you're after one, and you post a "want" to the website. Fred sees your message; he knows that you're a decent sort because he bought a book off you last week and you didn't rip him off; so he sends you a (private) reply.

(A halfway house might even be possible, whereby Fred has registered with the website that he owns a chainsaw but that he doesn't want to lend it to everyone. When you ask for a chainsaw, the website quietly mails Fred to say "Jon is looking for a chainsaw. If you want to lend yours to him, click here". Something like that!)

Harriet's LETS-like barter scheme is good too.

There's an interesting article in today's Observer on a similar topic, which points to StreetBank.com as an example. Might be worth looking there for inspiration - but of course the great advantage of doing it via this website is that half of Charlbury already reads it, so we'd be up and running rightaway.

Sat 5 May 2012, 23:36

Thanks for the clarification on ownership of a chainsaw Simon and its good to hear that you won't lend it out Willy nilly.
common sense ahh yes I remember that long time ago though don't believe it is in use nowadays.

Sat 5 May 2012, 19:35

The Local Exchange Trading Scheme will next meet in Charlbury on Monday 21st May in the Memorial Hall Garden Room, at 7.30pm. Just come along to find out more about the LETS!

Sat 5 May 2012, 17:38

I think it'd have to be done like the LETS schemes.

So there'd have to be people with skills/tools signed up to a list. Jon, you'd find someone with a chainsaw and this person would saw up your logs, and then you'd have to have something you could do for them in return (babysitting, cooking, cleaning, decorating, gardening, filling out forms, just about anything). That way you don't have problems with H&S, insurance etc. The work would have to be arranged to suit each person - the person with the chainsaw would need the free time to saw up the logs; you might need to be in for them to have access to your garden; you might not trust them in your garden if you weren't there etc etc

I'm not sure how the LETS schemes work in terms of dealing with things that go wrong. I'm sure Google will tell you more about them.

Sat 5 May 2012, 16:55

Just for clarification, you do not need a licence to own or use a chainsaw. However, I surely would not lend mine to anyone I didn't know, and who had not been through a training course and did not have the full protective kit.

On the more general elf and safety issue, I can see that the PAT testing requirement would apply if there were a 'formal' system whereby people could make use of a particular electrical gadget that was kept in a community 'store'. However, where individuals offer to lend, or to ask to borrow, then it's up to them to come to an agreement over things like suitability for the intended task, and liability if things go wrong. Today's nanny society seems to have lost sight of common sense.

Sat 5 May 2012, 14:02

Good comment Tim, a voice of reason in our midst!!

Sat 5 May 2012, 13:36

Whilst it sounds a great idea I think health and safety would kill it dead. Every item of electrical equipment would need to be PAT tested then there is the part of correct intruction on how to use the item being borrowed and also with the chainsaw suggestion lending don't you need a licence to have one ? protective gear to wear ? the list goes on, I'm afraid gone are the days when you could just lend an item, as the "had an accident there's a claim" companies put an end to them, and even whilst some people would have public liability in their home insurance policy would it cover items being lent to other people ? great idea, but good luck on the nitty gritty side of sorting out all the legal stuff and nicking a well known line but " for that reason I'm out "

Sat 5 May 2012, 12:09

OK Richard, here's a real for instance.

I'd like to borrow a chain saw to cut a few logs from some 8 inch thick branches. I hope that someone I know may be willing to lend me one, if they think I'm trustworthy and responsible, just as I'd lend a drill to someone I know (see Charlotte's earlier post). You're more likely to trust someone you know: at least you can make an informed decision whether to lend and trust, or not.

On the other hand, I would not expect someone to offer to lend their chainsaw to anyone who asks. I certainly wouldn't. It is too easily damaged.

I can't see an obvious solution. Can anyone? Or are other people more willing than me to lend their tools and gadgets to people they don't kmow?

Sat 5 May 2012, 09:56

Very interesting idea. I'll start thinking about how the website could do something like that, but do keep the suggestions and ideas coming here - would love to hear how people think it could work.

Fri 4 May 2012, 16:53

Sorry, Jody, rather than Jodi!

Fri 4 May 2012, 16:53

Jodi - I totally agree. I think this website is a fabulous resource for our local community and is only limited by our imagination. I think a dedicated forum, while not essential, might encourage more people to post that sort of request.

Fri 4 May 2012, 15:53

Shame about the drums.

Regarding community ownership, I sort of feel that a communal sharing of resources could - and to a degree already does - happen care of this wonderful site. I for one would feel very comfortable putting up an invite/advert/forum post here asking for a willing lender of a tool or item that I don't posses but temporarily need - indeed I have when I asked if anyone had some carding combs I could borrow in the past! And would equally offer my services, or drill, if they were needed in some form or another.

Perhaps a dedicated thread or area of the site could be set aside for such skills/tools exchange. That way community responsibility - or loss thereof - would not perhaps be such a risk, but communal benefits of our friendly helpful community could be more fully felt. There's perhaps no easy way of advertising what drills-for-loan might be out there, but people step up already to such requests so it's almost already there.

Fri 4 May 2012, 14:50

Thanks Richard. Dadadrum's website is informative:

"Banburys drumming group Sankofa took 14 people on a training visit to Senegal whilst Osrani, Charlburys drumming ensemble ran an African awareness day with schools workshops, performances and sessions from different African teachers. Both groups grew out of short courses to a point where a strong core group established itself and the group could develop its autonomy."

Dadadrum also says it won a £73,000 lottery grant to establish Drum Orchestra, but I can find no trace of the orchestra's existence now. Under 'News' the site lists taster sessions for 'Arts training for business' to be held in North Aston on Sat/Sun November 18/19. The last time those dates occurred at a weekend was in 2006. It promises 'workshop times to follow.' Workshop leaders are/were listed as Alex Hehir, Kath Lucas, Nikki Jackson and Ross Moore.

With the alleged grant of £5k towards drums stored at the Shed, we are talking significant money here, all of it from public or lottery funds.

If no one comes forward with a legitimate claim on the drums, perhaps they should be sold to raise funds towards the improvements planned at the Memorial Hall.

Fri 4 May 2012, 12:48

Might the drums have something to do with 'Dadadrum', an organization still listed on this site as a creative business? The website link is still live, but the operator of this organisation (a neighbour) moved to Yorkshire some years ago. I believe he ran the drumming workshops in the Friend's Meeting House.

Fri 4 May 2012, 12:02

As I understand it the drums were purchased with a grant from WODC for the drumming group which used to meet in the Friends' Meeting House. Perhaps someone from the group can clarify the situation about ownership of the drums?

Fri 4 May 2012, 08:43

Can we know more about the drums, John?

Fri 4 May 2012, 08:32

The risk is that the community spends money on things that don't get used. (Like the £5000 worth of African drums which languish in The Shed). So it's important to research needs. Collective ownership means no one takes responsibilty. Individual ownership means things are more likely to be looked after. In our economy goods are relatively cheap and there is little need to share.

Fri 4 May 2012, 07:31 (last edited on Fri 4 May 2012, 07:32)

So is there any good reason for not doing it, Liz?

Thu 3 May 2012, 12:30

Unfortunately there are probably only about 55 million chuck keys though and a lot of blunt bits.
Hook Norton has a community car sharing scheme but I've had mixed reports about how well it works.

Thu 3 May 2012, 10:01

Think of the insurance implications!!

Thu 3 May 2012, 08:28

Liz, I really like your ideas. Keep them coming. There are many items I can't afford and need to borrow, or have like a drill, and use only once every three years, because I don't have the strengh to use, with my fibromyalgia. I'd be more than willing to lend my drill.

Wed 2 May 2012, 20:59

Did you know that there are 56 million electric drills in the UK - used on average for 13 minutes. What if the community owned some of these useful tools, and organised their shared use? It would save money, resources, and get us talking to one another!