Developing a Dark Skies Policy for Charlbury

Thu 13 Mar, 19:53 (last edited on Thu 13 Mar, 19:54)

Not necessarily Hans. Although not biologically having no impact, the sort of detectors now available; paying attention to baffles and reflectors - AND light frequencies and "flicker rate" etc etc of lighting from electric supply - can reduce the negative impact.

I did a bit of digging in this area some years back, but simply cannot find the "digital notes" of links and things. And that was years ago. I expect that both technology and understanding the biological impact of lighting characteristics etc must have become more informed and sophisticated in subsequent years.

Sat 8 Mar, 19:06

I get it that dark skies is incompatible with the need for street lights. But we are in the age of technology. How about a smartphone app that turns on the streetlight using blåtand?

Fri 7 Mar, 19:36

Thank you to those who have put their names forward to join the group. We will aim to organise our first meeting in the next ten days. 

Fri 7 Mar, 10:27 (last edited on Fri 7 Mar, 10:43)

I have a solar light near my gate back and front garden which is on dim, and brightens up as people or cars come past. Not too bright. The added bonus is it has a small usb slot to charge if needed. It's useful for any walking back home in the dark. I find houses that have lights that just brighten when walking back from anywhere at night are reassuring.

Fri 7 Mar, 07:39

A good start would be for all residents to ensure that their front path/driveway external lights are adjusted properly. They should either be angled downward (to minimise unwanted sky illumination) or better have some sort of shield fitted in front of the top portion of the lamp's front lens.

Thu 6 Mar, 17:31

Thanks Richard. It still doesn’t ring any bells so I can only assume  that I was one of the 76% who didn’t vote on this for some reason.

Thu 6 Mar, 15:38

Liz said “the Neighbourhood Plan which was passed by a referendum of all residents in 2021” which was discussed here and reported here – lots more on the site if you use the search box to look for 'neighbourhood plan referendum'.

Thu 6 Mar, 15:33

Just out of interest, does anyone remember a referendum in 2021 discussing this? I appreciate we were all sobering up after the Covid restrictions but I honestly have no knowledge of this. 

Wed 5 Mar, 19:51

Could we not have specific nights (maybe decided at short notice to account for weather conditions) set aside for star gazing? I may be barking up the wrong tree here as I’m not aware of all the issues associated with Dark Skies and am happy to be corrected. 

I am concerned about the different safety problems which would be my priority instead of seeing the stars. It is not difficult to get out of Charlbury at night and find somewhere really dark if need be.

Wed 5 Mar, 19:24

I don't think a movement sensor would work very well, Hans, at least where I live. Perhaps better in the centre of town,

It would need to be sensitive enough to pick up me on foot at a reasonable distance, but not pick up the deer, badgers and foxes etc. Lots of deer round here, including in and out of my front garden ...

I think lights constantly switching on and off might be more intrusive than lights on all the time. The notion that nothing much happens on the street between the hours of midnight and 6 a.m. is delusional.

There are no very up-to-date crime statistics, but we already know that gangs have recently come down from the Midlands, targeting expensive cars, sheds and garages. A house in Elm Crescent was targeted in January around 3.30 a.m. 

Crime stats to June 24 are here: https://www.ukcrimestats.com/Subdivisions/CED/15472/#Crime 

We are a low crime area, but burglary and vehicle crime feature quite often, and there's also more violent crime (139 cases in a 12 month period) than one might have supposed. 

Wed 5 Mar, 18:11

How about a movement sensor on the streetlights? Job potentially done.

Wed 5 Mar, 17:36

This from the Neighbourhood Plan:

"Charlbury’s dark skies are an important part of its character, allowing stars to be seen at night. A map produced by the Cotswolds Conservation Board shows Charlbury to be one of the towns with the lowest levels of light pollution in the Cotswolds (rated 2…

Long post - click to read full text

Wed 5 Mar, 15:32

"Carry a torch" might be one of the most ignorant things I've seen on here in a while and it's a high, high bar! Charlbury isn't here simply to cater for able-bodied dreamers. 

Wed 5 Mar, 14:27

For those interested further, please email the clerk who can send you the Terms of Reference of the group. clerk@charlbury-tc.gov.uk

Wed 5 Mar, 14:25

Simon, as noted above, Charlbury already has a dark skies policy as part of the Neighbourhood Plan which was passed by a referendum of all residents in 2021. We are proposing now to look at widening its scope and proposing  mitigations where there are problems. There is no minimum number of residents that need to raise an issue before it is discussed further.

Wed 5 Mar, 13:52

How many residents have asked the council to prepare a dark skies policy? Is there a magic number of people who need to ask for something for it to be looked at?

Wed 5 Mar, 11:40

There is a pun about “not a black or white issue” in here somewhere. There are countless possibilities in the space between Stonesfield’s no-streetlights policy and the Blackpool Illuminations approach that GWR employs at the station. The Montpellier sign that Tim posted, for example, sees lights switched off between midnight and 6am, a time when I would really hope no-one is out delivering pamphlets.

“and the Oxford Mail reported only on Monday an increase in the Crime Statistics for Charlbury Station”

Yes, from a total of three crimes reported in 2023, up to five in 2025. Really not statistically significant. The real offender here is the Oxford Mail for repeatedly perpetrating crimes against journalism.

Wed 5 Mar, 11:22

This has been a hugely controversial topic over the years. Just search Street Lights in the mail box at the top of this website for evidence on this.

Some of us live in parts of the town where it is already very dark at night. And, yes, it's nice to look up at the stars (they have been especially impressive this week), but there are also serious safety concerns, including ones relating to potholes and uneven pavements that can be hard to spot in the darker parts of town. In addition, crime remains an issue, and the Oxford Mail reported only on Monday an increase in the Crime Statistics for Charlbury Station. 

Those of us who live outside the centre of town are already facing the prospect of having to walk more at night because of the parking restrictions about to come in. Personally I would like to see how this beds down before the Town Council introduces yet more change that could further disadvantage those with reduced mobility and/or vision. 

I have no problem at all with Charlbury's existing Dark Sky policy as reported by Jack Wells. I have many problems with OCC's Street Lighting goals, as found in Liz Leffman's OCC policy links.

Stonesfield (and even worse Fawler) is not really an appealing example -- I absolutely hate delivering pamphlets there at night. So, I agree with Emily -- let's have some idea of what this working group wants to achieve in responding to the request of those (few?) residents who wish to open up the debate about this fraught issue once again.

Wed 5 Mar, 10:48

Liz/Jack/Gill, do you have an agenda or specific aims/goals for the working group?

Is the aim just to reduce light pollution or would the group be open strategically placed street lighting? 
Before committing, I think residents would like to know what the group’s aims and objectives are. 

Wed 5 Mar, 09:00

If you would like to join our working group to work these things through, please contact clerk@charlbury-tc.gov.uk

Wed 5 Mar, 08:59

Good to see engagement on the issue. We specifically didn't mention street lights in our opening thread - there's much more to lighting than that. Just look around your neighbourhood....

Given that discussion has started, no need to go to Montpelier - Stonesfield chose long ago to have no street lights.

Wed 5 Mar, 07:37

It’s not as simple as “carry a torch!”. As I said in my comment, there is a difference between it not being safe (falling) and not feeling safe. 

There really needs to be a street light on Dyers Hill on the right hand side as you walk away from the station. It would also be good to have one opposite Wychwood House and one near the entrance to Nine Acres (near the co-op). I’m sure there are other places, like Crawborough.

Wed 5 Mar, 07:13

I agree with Emily and Steve Jones it is not just as simple as admiring the sky at night for some of us, it is negotiating uneven footways and broken pavements often in the glare of undipped headlights.

My grandson visited recently with his girlfriend who has lived in London all her life. On walking from Wychwood House down the Enstone Road at 7pm very quickly commented how dark it was and she would prefer not to be walking on her own.

Wed 5 Mar, 06:46 (last edited on Wed 5 Mar, 06:49)

If you carry a torch pls don't wave it up and down when walking as it causes difficulty for people with Menieres and vestibular issues (which is why I don't use a torch, I don't want to make my problems worse)

Also with Menieres, where you see shadows as holes in the ground, stronger brighter lighting is better. Obviously shadows on black tarmac pavements in the dark are worse than those on concrete paved ones (like you'd get in Oxford for example)

Tue 4 Mar, 23:15

Carry a torch!

Tue 4 Mar, 21:16 (last edited on Tue 4 Mar, 21:19)

I like dark skies too, but there are some dangerous spots for walking in Charlbury, with Crawborough being particularly tricky in the dark, and it's just about the only safe route for pedestrians from the centre of town to Ticknell Piece, the Green and the Slade.

It's not even as if it is safely lit now. I know it is a private road, but it's also a public right of way. Also, not everybody is in the first flush of youth (speaking personally) and falls are one of the biggest dangers to the elderly.

Tue 4 Mar, 19:59

I am all for dark skies, but I hope this will be measured carefully against safely walking through Charlbury when it's dark as well as feeling safe walking through Charlbury when it's dark. Perhaps a public consultation, which includes young people and women.

There are dark spots in Charlbury that could do with extra lighting that could make us all feel safer. 

Tue 4 Mar, 19:13

This is from a small town just outside Montpellier that we saw last month, and we imagined how nice it would be if Charlbury had the same...

Tue 4 Mar, 16:11

Volunteers to participate please!

Mon 3 Mar, 11:57 (last edited on Mon 3 Mar, 11:58)

For those interested, this is the current statement in the Neighbourhood Plan.

'Development proposals should maintain and, where practicable, improve the tranquillity and the dark skies environment in and around Charlbury. In particular, proposals for the installation of artificial external lighting will only be supported where they include lighting levels at the lowest level possible to achieve the effect required.'

Mon 3 Mar, 11:33

You could make a start with Policy NE4: Tranquility and Dark Skies, explained at para 7.2.9, of the Town Council's existing Neighbourhood Plan.

Mon 3 Mar, 11:08

This might be helpful https://mycouncil.oxfordshire.gov.uk/documents/s62482/CA_OCT1822R11%20Annex%20A%20Street%20Lighting%20Policy_2022%20Clean%20Version%20250522.pdfful

Mon 3 Mar, 10:38

Three councillors are on the new working group - Gill Apadoo, Liz Reason and Jack Wells. We’re looking for interested residents to join us. This won’t be a big commitment, but could prove very interesting.