Residents Parking Survey and Restrictions

Thu 21 Nov, 05:31

Mark, I just read the article in the Oxford Mail and find this worrying. What is the benefit of a public consultation if 80% of people vote against it, and it still gets approved. I do not profess to understand politics but I thought we lived in a democracy, not a dictatorship? How is it right that one person can make the decision, I would have assumed it would at least go to a committee and a vote carried out.

Wed 20 Nov, 20:47

The general consensus of the decision makers in OCC do not take the opinions of the responses in other locations , so hopefully the strength of the occupants and regular people who work and visit a town without sufficient parking . See the extract from the Oxford Mail today “ The trial was approved by Andrew Gant, cabinet member for transport management, at an Oxfordshire County Council (OCC) meeting last Thursday (November 14).

This comes after 80 per cent of respondents to a public consultation "did not support" the trial going ahead.”  

More Parking Required ! Look on Google earth- green areas  = possible locations for parking 

Tue 19 Nov, 17:41

I am encouraging people living in all of the surrounding villages to respond to the consultation

Tue 19 Nov, 15:12

Philip, I am sure you have the right to respond.

The first question in the survey is about where you live, and you can explain your situation there.

Whether OCC takes any notice of what people say is another matter. After all, they disregarded the results of surveys for both Witney and Woodstock when they didn't agree with the results.

We are now told that the Woodstock parking scheme has been a success, and it has just been agreed that there should be a further extension of the parking restrictions. But I know I am not alone in thinking it disastrous. I have shopped and socialised very little in Woodstock since it was introduced. The parking restrictions have also interfered with my participation in Oxford events as the buses from Charlbury are so infrequent (especially in the evenings) and also very slow. 

Tue 19 Nov, 14:26 (last edited on Tue 19 Nov, 14:29)

Is the consultation intended for Charlbury residents only?

I do not live in Charlbury, but do use the Library, Medical Centre and the Co-op. I stand by my previous comments about maximising the economic benefits of the Spendlove Car Park and deterring rail commuters from parking there. I sympathise with Simon’s predicament at the nursery. If any scheme is implemented surely it should take account of local business needs alongside private ones? I fear that the mere fact that it has been published might suggest a done deal?

It is unlikely that GWR will invest any more money in station parking facilities while the spectre of re-nationalisation looms large. 

Muddled thinking in local government has delivered not a lot of help in this part of the world. A park and ride scheme that doesn’t, LTNs , excessive 20 limits and re-engineered roads that have vastly extended journey times, without mentioning the giant pothole that is the Botley Road bridge scheme. No wonder working from home is so popular!

Mon 18 Nov, 13:51

Adrian, my personal view is that once this is introduced, it will stay. I believe the 6 months trial period is just to try and encourage people to allow it to happen. I cannot see for one minute that the investment needed to impliment this will be thrown away after 6 months, but then the councils do work in mysterious ways....... 

Mon 18 Nov, 09:49

https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/charlbury_parking2024

Thankyou for that, Liz.

I gather that it is intended to be a six-month trial; presumably, though, signs and road painting would have to take place, and people would be charged for the permits. Who, after this, decides whether it's working or not, and would they really take back signs and road painting and refund the permit charges?

Mon 18 Nov, 08:55 (last edited on Mon 18 Nov, 08:57)

A decision will be taken by the Cabinet member (who by the way has no connection with Charlbury) in public at a meeting at Oxfordshire County Council in the New Year and I will let people know when it is scheduled. A paper will be published a week before the meeting which will be available on the OCC website  and which will include the consultation responses and a recommendation from officers based on the information collected.  Residents can also register to speak at the meeting if they wish to make their views known in public.

Sun 17 Nov, 19:57

https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/charlbury_parking2024

Just filled this in. Will the results of this consultation be published? Or is the case that they have already decided this is what they're going to do, and they'll do it without disclosing whether it's wanted by those whom it will affect? I personally think there would have to be a much stronger case made for imposing parking permits; the cynic in me suspects that this is a way to generate money, by making residents pay to park outside their own houses, and that cars would just get parked elsewhere in already clogged residential areas.

Sun 17 Nov, 13:55

The Survey on the Charlbury Parking proposals is no longer easy to find on the OCC website, and is also not on the current news page of this website. 

A lot of people will have put off expressing their views until reading the comments on this forum. But the consultation closes this Friday (22nd Nov.), so now is the time to act.

Here's the OCC link again: https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/charlbury_parking2024

Sat 16 Nov, 14:44 (last edited on Sat 16 Nov, 19:52)

All… I have just seen the proposal for the Parking Scheme, tied to a post on the corner of Browns Lane and the Playing Close. Wow. The part that made my mouth drop open regards the Playing Close. I think this proposal needs to be challenged,  as, in my opinion, it is grossly unfair. So please take Liz’s advice before this goes much further…?

It will closed in less than a week. Hurry up!

Sat 16 Nov, 13:06 (last edited on Sat 16 Nov, 13:14)

Can I gently remind people that what you write on this Forum will not be taken into account in the consultation.  If you want your views to be considered you need to fill in the form at Let's Talk Oxfordshire.  https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/charlbury_parking2024

There are towns all over Oxfordshire with a mix of business and residential properties in the centre which have had restricted parking for many years.  They all have their different characteristics but the system generally works well.  This is going to be a trial for six months if it gets approval. That will allow for us to consider whether this is right for Charlbury or not.  

I have suggested to Simon, who has contacted me by email, that any data regarding where people who work in the town currently park would be helpful. The more actual information that is presented in the consultation, as opposed to supposition, the better.  But all views that are registered will be given consideration and the pros and cons weighed up before a decision is taken.  I can absolutely guarantee that because the Cabinet member who makes these decisions reads everything - often many hundreds of pages - before every decision meeting!

Sat 16 Nov, 10:56 (last edited on Sat 16 Nov, 11:00)

Stephen, it is also a risk buying a house with no off street parking but it appears all you need to do is complain about it and resident permits get introduced without a thought for who will be negatively affected. Parking is not great, but as far as I can see, it is currently working. This is backed up by evidence produced by the Town Council survey of the Spendlove car park. All this scheme is going to achieve is pushing parking further out of the town centre and causing problems elsewhere, but at least all of the tourists are going to get better photos with less parked cars for their Instagram stories!

Sat 16 Nov, 10:48

Hi all, I'm one of the owners of Little monkeys. As Stephen rightly says we are situated in a Georgian town house in Church street. 

There has been a children's day nursery in this building since 1995. Myself and a friend bought the nursery 13 years ago and renamed it Little Monkeys. The nursery was previously Kiddywinks. I joined Kiddwinks in 1996 as a newly qualified nursery nurse, I became the nursery manager for Kiddywinks in 2005. By this point I had fallen in love with charlbury and the nursery and had moved my young family to charlbury in 2003 so they could benefit from charlbury life.  So when the opportunity to buy the nursery came about we put everything we had in and bought the nursery. It's been hard work, but we love our work.  When the nursery opened in 1995 Charlbury was a very different place, even when we bought the nursery 13 years ago it wasn't like it is now and parking wasn't an issue! 

So yes Stephen I wouldn't set up a nursery in church street now either, but we have been here a very long time and have seen a lot of Charlbury children through our doors. 

I have a great staff team, they are what makes us successful, I appreciate each of them every day. But some don't live in charlbury and have to commute. 6 of my 15 staff who commute in, lived in charlbury, with some charlbury born and bred, but have moved to chippy, Witney, carterton to buy a house as they couldn't stay in charlbury as the house prices here are so high - but that's a debate for a different day! So they have to commute! 

Thanks x 

Sat 16 Nov, 10:24

Michael you are absolutely right, most people don’t need to work in a physical workplace, and most workplaces don’t need to be in a town or city centre.  But there’s a minority that do - and that includes food shops, nurseries, pubs and restaurants.  They arent the highest earning sectors but we all need them! 

Sat 16 Nov, 10:05

The Spendlove car park survey started at 8.00 each day and we were able to identify the few cars that were already parked there.

Sat 16 Nov, 09:58

..and as mentioned on its own website, Little Monkeys is in a Georgian Town House and wonderful as it is to have the facility there, it is a business risk not making any provision for out-of-town staff getting there, parking or otherwise

Sat 16 Nov, 09:50 (last edited on Sat 16 Nov, 09:52)

And to add to Richard's advice, the biggest source of jobs (or cash) in Charlbury almost certainly isn't is workers providing care or hospitality. It's Charlbury residents working from home.

WFH is probably the fastest growing sector of Britain's economy - and  one of the reasons I can't find up to date data to demonstrate that is that WFH is so amorphous. Someone might have been out of work, or commuting, for the past decade - then decide to run an Ebay business from home. Or have been physically present working in a town centre pub or restaurant - then decide to run a blog site from home.

Or work from home as a County Councillor almost all day, and listen to residents' views about traffic management with Parish Councils almost every night - but still appear in the published data as a worker in Oxford because of the 10 or 15 hours a week she's in the office as well as the 60 or so she's working at home or travelling round the area chairing projects like the East-West Railway that will provide solutions to many of the problems discussed here.  

They've got rights too.

Sat 16 Nov, 08:35 (last edited on Sat 16 Nov, 10:23)

Claire, I don’t think it’s that simple (if it was we wouldn’t be having this thread!). It’s both commercial and residential. Market Street has about 20 residential properties and 10 businesses/services. Dyers Hill has the Baptist Church but is otherwise entirely residential. Lots of these houses have been residential for ages – ours since at least 1850, for example. But then, in 1850 inns like the White Hart would have provided adequate stabling for visitors’ Sports Utility Horses rather than expecting them to tie up on the street.

Sat 16 Nov, 08:24

I think many people are sympathetic to your view, Simon. In an ideal world it would be so much better if workers could use public transport, but although Charlbury has better public transport than some places, the fact is that lots of workers come in from places that have no public transport available. I regret filling out the survey before thinking about the consequences for businesses, and will send a follow-up email.

Fri 15 Nov, 18:27

I think we need to ask ourselves what the purpose of the town centre is. Is it for businesses and services, or for houses? I would say it’s businesses and services and so parking should give priority to the needs of customers and staff.  Residents should be able to park there too but their needs don't trump the needs of everyone else. 

Fri 15 Nov, 18:05 (last edited on Fri 15 Nov, 18:07)

Just a thought...

Justpark.com

Fri 15 Nov, 16:07

Richard, I am happy to admit that I am being quite selfish in this debate. The simple reason being that no one else seems to care about where the workers are actually going to park. If they cannot park, the nursery for one will end up closing because we cannot open our doors if we have no staff. Apologies but I do not see where we can compromise with this.

Fri 15 Nov, 15:58

James, I think the problem with using somewhere like the Cricket Club would be policing who is using it. Being so close to the station, train users would soon cotton on and park there instead of in the station car park. I would guess a permit scheme could be introduced, but being private property, a private enforcement company would have to be employed to manage it. All these costs mount up, and ultimately, workers will end up having to pay to park there, which will have an impact on workers who are already on fairly low wages. I don’t profess to have the answers to the parking problem, but making it worse for numerous people surely is not the way to go?

Fri 15 Nov, 15:48 (last edited on Fri 15 Nov, 15:49)

I'm intrigued by the comments made in the News section from the Town Council that from the survey results, it was found that station users don't use the Spendlove car park......sorry, but take it from someone who regularly commutes by train, that's nonsense.
I'm assuming for that conclusion to be arrived at, that the 4-6 hours a day over 6 days that the survey was done, did not coincide with the early hours arrivals to the car park that train users do for catching the 6.11am, 7.11am  or 7.33am trains.
If so, I take it back.
However, I myself use the trains at these times and know for a fact there are commuters for those trains who do use the Spendlove, park up early and arrive back late, and thereby their arrivals and departures may well have missed the survey window. 
I assume these were missed from the survey for such a finding to be reported, or the other non-sensical assumption is that train users only get trains during the hours of the day when most full-time workers are already at work.
I mention it because if the idea that station users don't use the Spendlove is being taken into account when thinking about proposals, that one really needs revisiting to be taken seriously.

Fri 15 Nov, 15:48

I think we’ve all been pouring more and more into this pint pot over recent years and have suddenly found it won’t fit.

More and bigger cars, Airbnbs, businesses employing more staff and attracting more customers, less off-street parking (because people have historically preferred that Charlbury infills rather than expands), an overflowing station car park. It all adds up. None of it is anyone’s fault as such and lots of it comes from a good place.

There are things that can be done, but it needs to come from a spirit of compromise and acceptance that none of us can always get what we want, and I don’t see a lot of that in this debate.

Fri 15 Nov, 15:34

Thank you, Lisa, for all of the points you've answered. 

Simon: if the scheme goes ahead, workers would be able to use the Spendlove car park, but then once full, the Spendlove may be rendered unusable for residents? There must be dozens and dozens of workers commuting to Charlbury – the Bull and the Bell are big employers now, and staff at the Bull can't even use the pub's car park (as far as I know). Hard to know where workers could park unless the cricket club car park were rented for commuter parking (usable except for the odd winter flood)? Should a consortium of affected businesses unite to find a solution? 

Fri 15 Nov, 14:20

To the casual observer, it seems odd that this scheme is being pushed forward before a solution for workers in town has been found.

Back in January, residents complained about workers parking on the streets in town.  It appears the solution being pushed by the Town Council is to shift on-street parking with little consideration for the impact on areas outside the controlled zone (such as Hixet Wood as has been mentioned), and with considerable impact on the town’s few surviving businesses.

As the station car park is often full, demand would only be increased in the unlikely event of GWR being persuaded to forego income from parking charges.

I’m lucky in that I’m not directly impacted, but I’m concerned for those that are.

Fri 15 Nov, 11:21

Lisa, it is imperative that the parking for workers is identified and implimented before this scheme is bought into force. Our staff mostly work 10 hour shifts. 3 hour parking is of no use to anyone who is working full time in Charlbury. We have 15 members of staff who have to drive to work. If they were all in at the same time, we would be taking up over half of the available parking at the CO-OP. You then have the barbours and hair dressers who all live outside of Charlbury, some of the CO-OP staff who commute and I am sure numerous other workers. This is a totally ridiculous situation to be putting anyone in. If the Town Council are not careful, they are going to kill the majority of the businesses in the town. Hey, but at least people can park outside there houses! As other folk have said on this post, if you want to be able to park outside your house, you buy a house with parking.

Fri 15 Nov, 09:37

To answer some of your questions:

OCC has told the Town Council that enforcement will be paid for by the funds raised from the parking permits. They also have drive by enforcement (ANPR vehicles which drive around to spot vehicles without permits etc. to direct civil enforcement officers to their locations to check).

Unfortunately a trial area would not be feasible due to the cost of implementing it in stages and it wouldn't give a true picture of how the scheme would work.

Liz Leffman is talking to GWR about parking but as OCC and GWR are completely different entities, there is no way any scheme could be linked. 

Business permits would not be available as it is a residents' parking scheme. OCC states that they can park for up to 3 hours, which is plenty of time undertake operational activities, e.g. bring in stock, load up delivery vehicles etc. but they would be expected to move to another location once these activities had been completed. As mentioned in the news section, the TC is currently looking for areas for staff parking for longer periods of time. 

If the scheme is implemented, OCC has agreed that it will be reviewed after 6 months.

Residents' permits entitle holders to park anywhere in the permit area - not necessarily on their own street. 

There will be unforeseen consequences i.e. dispersal to other areas, which is why we have asked for it to be reviewed after 6 months (if implemented).

The Town Council has worked with OCC to offer the scheme as an option following many years of requests received from residents who can't park near their houses. So please send in your comments to the consultation so OCC gets a representative view.

OCC is hoping for this to be taken to the cabinet meeting for consideration on 12th December. Members of public are able to attend the meeting and request to speak. If you are interested in this then please contact me and I'll give your more details.

Fri 15 Nov, 05:55

James, please read my first comment on this post as to how we believe it will affect our business. Working in childcare is not very well paid, due in part to the poor government funding of children. The increase in the employer NIC will only make it more difficult to increase wages. Our staff work with children because it’s their passion. They could all earn more money working in their local supermarkets. If parking is made difficult, or impossible for them, they potentially will choose to work elsewhere. There is a massive shortage of people wanting to work in childcare so we would struggle to replace a single member of staff, let alone all 15 if they chose to leave. This obviously would be made even more difficult if potential staff were either having to be Charlbury residents, or lived on a decent bus route (not sure there are any), or lived by a train station. 

Thu 14 Nov, 20:16

That would explain why no-one I've spoken to notes anything about it!

Thu 14 Nov, 17:46

Does anyone know how the proposed restrictions would affect businesses? The survey doesn't mention this.

Thu 14 Nov, 17:21 (last edited on Thu 14 Nov, 17:30)

No-one "filled out the survey". We were there for 4-6 hours over six days. We spoke to individuals on the way in and on the way out, we saw them carrying the bottle of milk or sandwich that they had popped into the Coop to buy. We had interesting chats with lots of individuals about where they worked, what they were cooking the wife for dinner that night and all sorts!

Thu 14 Nov, 14:47

Some of them are staying at local airbnbs. They come into the co-op and ask if they can park in the car park because there's nowhere else to park and they're staying here x number of days. 

I doubt any of them filled out the survey. 

Thu 14 Nov, 12:44

I think that the people who answered questions being asked by the Town Council were being a bit economical with the truth.  No way are all the cars in the Coop carpark for shoppers who are in the Coop!   Some may be in the Community Centre or working in the Spendlove - but there are spaces for them!   I really dont know where all the cars come from.

Thu 14 Nov, 10:26 (last edited on Thu 14 Nov, 17:45)

Stephen, I agree that the link you have shared would not really be relevant in Charlbury unless we all sell our cars and start driving Minibuses or vans, but as my car is due to be replaced soon, you have given me inspiration into what I might buy. 🚌 🚛 🚚

Thu 14 Nov, 09:26

Re Claire's question concerning parking permits for businesses, I dug this out from OCC. It obviously addresses the issue in Oxford, and would not be appropriate here, but it provides an insight into the issues

https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/roads-and-transport/parking/parking-permits/business-parking-permits

Thu 14 Nov, 07:42

As the Spendlove car park survey states that spaces often become available after only a few minutes, doesn’t this suggest that the parking issue is not as bad as being suggested? It states that the disabled bays and parent parking is under used, so these folk are being catered for. Apart from the huge inconvenience going to be caused by the proposed parking scheme, the cost involved to implement it, and the unsightly signs that will have to be installed, what is going to be the benefit? Surely we can all wait a few minutes for a parking space to become available as the survey states? If this proposed scheme is introduced, there will be no available  parking at the Spendlove Centre. It will be full of cars who are currently parking elsewhere who need to park longer than the proposed restrictions will allow. I’m sure people popping into the CO-OP will soon get fed up if they are having to park on Church Street.

Surely if the town council are looking for alternative parking to allow staff to park in the town as stated in the survey , this should be implemented before these restrictions are imposed? Seems a bit backwards to me.

Wed 13 Nov, 22:32

Very helpful to see the results of the Spendlove parking survey by the Town Council, thank you.  It would also be helpful to have a bit more information about why the parking scheme has been designed as it is.  Why is the scheme 8am til 6pm - I had previously heard suggestions that any restrictions would be very short, so as to deter people leaving their cars all day but allowing visitors to park unrestricted for most of the day?  And why are there no permits proposed for businesses? Thanks.

Wed 13 Nov, 16:54

For what it's worth - one of the bits of not-often-useful information that I have tucked away somewhere is that the hammer blow effect of sending a wheeled vehicle across a track is weight to the power 5.   Worth keeping in mind when estimating what a bridge can bear.   

Wed 13 Nov, 15:44

Sounds to me like those short-sighted Victorians built a bridge for a few horses a week, and didn't have the foresight to think about 40-tonne lorries, wall to wall 4x4s and the flow of 21st century water and pollution from upstream.

Never mind all those foreign crayfish nibbling away...

Wed 13 Nov, 11:03

From memory only the damaged road bed and parapets were repaired but not the undamaged piers and foundations which were inspected. 

On inspection right down to the rock under the riverbed the foundations were found to be insufficient for an unrestricted bridge.....it should have been a restricted weight long before the floods of 2007.

So the although the weight restriction came in after the repairs they were not the cause.

Wed 13 Nov, 10:07 (last edited on Wed 13 Nov, 10:33)

My point is that it used to take heavier vehicles and now doesn’t after being closed for several months. Was it rebuilt on the cheap to a lower specification ? or are there other reasons eg traffic management as per Burford bridge?

Wed 13 Nov, 10:02

I think the clue may be in the words “washed away”.

Wed 13 Nov, 08:53 (last edited on Wed 13 Nov, 10:03)

Re Christine’s comment about the weight limit on the bridge, although an X9 Optare bus weighs more than 7.5 tonnes, if the restriction was made except for service buses, that problem is solved. All that remains is the challenge of getting up or down Dyers Hill!

Before the 2007 floods washed away the bridge, I do not recall there being a weak bridge weight limit. Why was one imposed? Were the repairs to a low specification and budget or sub-standard ? or was there another reason e.g. traffic management? Does anyone know? Maybe Christian Mauz or Liz Leffman can enlighten us?

Tue 12 Nov, 20:09

A publicly accessible webcam overlooking the station car park would be one cheap and simple way to gauge how full it is.

Tue 12 Nov, 19:25 (last edited on Tue 12 Nov, 19:30)

With the weight restrictions on the Dyer's Hill Bridge, it's unlikely that the route of the X9 will be extended to take in the station. Alas.

Those wanting some kind of electronic counter to monitor the spaces at Charlbury, Hanborough, Oxford, and Oxford Parkway stations, should be careful what they wish for. At the moment Charlbury carpark is very lightly surveyed. An electronic monitor would almost certainly mean more fines for those picking up or dropping off train passengers. I suspect the prices would also go up as well. And, actually, Charlbury is pretty cheap (only £3.20 after 10 a.m. and at weekends). We are the same price as Kingham, although Hanborough is somewhat cheaper, and Oxford more expensive (and very, very expensive for non-rail passengers). Oxford Parkway is run by a different train company and has a different parking system altogether, so is unlikely ever to be involved. 

As a rule of thumb, there are spaces at Charlbury Station generally in the evenings, at the weekends, and probably also on Mondays and Fridays. After 10 on Tuesdays to Thursdays is when it seems generally not worth trying to park until much later on.

Oxford Parkway is great at the moment, but looking ahead -- including to when Oxford United will (almost certainly) have their stadium in the land opposite the station -- it looks as if parking will become much more difficult there.

And, yes, an electric shuttle to Charlbury station would be great, and not just for the villages but also to the outer parts of out town. But I still fail to understand why we still don't have a proper taxi rank at the station, or even a dedicated taxi phone. Many of the people using our station are working or travelling to Heythrop Park Hotel, Soho farmhouse, Burford as well as the local businesses and hostelries.

Tue 12 Nov, 17:25 (last edited on Tue 12 Nov, 17:25)

Please do copy any comments into the consultation as they will all be considered if they are registered there.

Tue 12 Nov, 16:59

There used to be a lovely little minibus type service from the station into Charlbury which I often used.  It even accepted my concessionary pass to/from.  

I had a telephone chat with the MD once and he seemed to be very ethical and motivated by helping rural communities.

It went bust because not enough people used it.  So there's a lesson there for all of us.  Use it or lose it.

I see the X9 going past my house every day and I use it to get to Witney and Chippy, but a lot of the time I am only one of 3 or 4 passengers.  This is off peak travel.  

I really hope we don't lose that as well.  From a selfish point of view, I'd be stranded.

Tue 12 Nov, 16:06

Surely OCC (Liz and Christian M) are going to read our comments on the consultation ??

I’ve copied my post below onto it.  Why fill up their inboxes with additional comments  which they’re less likely to see?

And yes, we need a community ( electric?) bus.  I’ve been saying that in every survey and consultation for two years. Ascott/Churchill have the Villager, although it’s not very regular and it doesn’t go to the station . OR we need the X9 to stop regularly at the station.  

Tue 12 Nov, 14:36

You can also email christian.mauz@oxfordshire.gov.uk and log any concerns you have over the parking proposals.

Tue 12 Nov, 10:57

Just to make you all aware that the consultation for the parking closes on the 22nd November. Please do take 10 minutes to complete it and please do encorage other folk to do the same. I have just sent emails to both Sean Woodcock and Liz Leffman stating my concerns and am looking forward to their replies. It maybe worth other people trying the same?

https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/charlbury_parking2024

Tue 12 Nov, 09:58

Here's a suggestion.

Lots of people are saying here that there's a need for buses linking the station with outlying villages. The County Council hasn't got the money, and however hard it tries to find any, education, social care and filling potholes are going to be higher priorities.

The overwhelming likelihood is that no conventional private company is going to step forward. So who's going to follow Middle Barton and set up a community business?

We've got a similar operation at the Community Centre - and look at how its revenues have soared  since Marjorie and Dine started raising oodles. 

Tue 12 Nov, 07:57

For intending train users who are driving locally but from out of town, it would be helpful to know before setting out whether the station car park is already full, or approaching capacity, that way they could make a decision to redirect before trying to find somewhere else to park in Charlbury in a rush. It could be provided by an electronic counter and then be made available on the web, as is done for other larger city carparks such as in Oxford. Such a system would of course need to cover Hanborough, Oxford, and Oxford Parkway, although I have never heard that Parkway carpark is full.

Mon 11 Nov, 20:10

Build it and they will come, as the saying goes i.e. the staion car park has been extended at least once, build another car park elsewehere, it will be full and then build another etc. but where and who will then object to that being 'next door'.

Mon 11 Nov, 19:17

Bernadette, please complete the survey voicing your concerns. Unfortunately, I suspect it's already a done deal and will be introduced, but if enough of us object, who knows. 

Mon 11 Nov, 09:51 (last edited on Mon 11 Nov, 10:39)

Our daughter worked at the Bull for a year or so.  It was a great opportunity for her, well paid, learning new skills and local.  We live two miles outside Charlbury.  The route is not safe to cycle plus she would mostly finish late at night after a very long shift.  The new parking restrictions would make it challenging for staff at any of our excellent Charlbury businesses arrive at work by car.  Recruitment and retention is already difficult in hospitality - lack of parking would make this harder.  It would exclude those of us who live outside Charlbury but want to use our local town's facilities (for an extended amount of time) or work there.  And I echo everything which others have said about the station car park.  I've stopped trying to use Charlbury station as the parking is so unreliable - we almost always drive to the brilliant Parkway now (avoiding the morning rush hour, however).  Parking cost at Parkway is £2 - a saving of £12 on parking at Charlbury if you're going to London for five days in a row.  

Fri 8 Nov, 20:27

The station car park used to be free. £4.40 might not sound like a lot but on top of your train fare, it is. I think making the station car park bigger and free to commuters would work. Plus, as Nikki says, a community bus service that serves the surrounding villages, Milton, Ascott, Finstock. 

Fri 8 Nov, 20:18

You make a good point Nikki. The surgery, dentists, community centre etc serve a wider area than just Charlbury and driving is the only practical way to get in. This is especially true when you have young children. I often bring my grandchildren to the community centre and it's getting harder to park.

Fri 8 Nov, 18:09 (last edited on Fri 8 Nov, 18:10)

I’ve tried to park at the station on 3 weekdays over the past 2-3 weeks with no success .so as I live outside Charlbury, I’ve had to park on the street in front of various peoples houses, so I can get my train. Coming back late in the dark, negotiating the slippery hill back up to town with two deepish holes in the pavement has made me decide it will be Oxford Parkway for me now on. No, there are no buses in the evening to the villages. 
And for those of us who regularly come into Charlbury, to volunteer, attend events and run meetings, it will become much more difficult with parking restrictions , and you will lose some of us I suspect. 
I sympathise with the residents in the centre of town who can’t park. But at least they can walk to the station or to the Co-op, the medical centre . Older people on the edge of town can’t. And there’s no hope of getting a space in Spendlove any more . 
We need a car park on the edge of town and a frequent community bus serving the station. Or a greatly enlarged station car park. I know you will all have thought of that, but it now needs to happen . 

Fri 8 Nov, 16:31

Surely, regardless of the whatever solution is landed upon, it's irrelevant without enforcement and there's precious little of that right now. 

Thu 7 Nov, 18:46

There is now apparently a large scale map on the wall by the Co-op.  See news item today. Thank you, Town Council! 

The devil is in the detail insofar as the proposals are concerned, so I do suggest that people look at it before filling in their response to the consultation. 

Sat 2 Nov, 09:31

Anyone else struggling to complete the survey? I don't feel as if we have enough information about the details and big picture of Charlbury's parking needs and problems - including station parking - to know what would be the best solutions. Is there a detailed  analysis I've missed? Also I don't know exactly how parking permits would work and could possibly move problems elsewhere. Could there be a trial in one area? 

Fri 1 Nov, 16:33

Simon,

The focus of my post was the Spendlove Centre car park, not residents parking. My point is that short term use of the Spendlove spaces maximises usage and the economic benefits. 

Thu 31 Oct, 10:47

Helen – if you go to the news item and click the link through to the county council’s website, all the plans are on the right under ‘Consultation documents’. You probably want either the Consultation Plan or the individual ones under Detailed Plans.

Thu 31 Oct, 10:33

There are frequently times when I cannot find anywhere to park near the shops, community centre & even the doctors medical centre.  There must be several other residents less able to carry items & move around.  How can I view the planned car parks?

Wed 30 Oct, 17:41

That’s good, Liz…..thank you. I look forward to seeing the results…

Wed 30 Oct, 17:35

The town council is conscious of the matters raised by residents and are aware of the potential for unintended consequences. We spent time interviewing many businesses in town and I'm sure some of you will have seen volunteers helping with the survey of the Spendlove car park. We will be sending out some messaging on what we learned - some of it quite interesting, if not surprising!

We are relying not just on proposals from OCC, but are also discussing other options to deal with new issues that may arise.

Do provide your comments to OCC.

Wed 30 Oct, 10:40

As if Pooles Lane can cope already, Dave… you got it in one. This is not a town that was ever envisaged, in the heyday of being a local, working community, becoming over-bloated and fat. Surely at the rate we are going, with no end in sight of ever slowing down growth, there will have to be a proper solution that will cost an enormous amount of money. Park and ride, multi-storey, underground? All been done elsewhere, and in even smaller places than this.

Wed 30 Oct, 06:09 (last edited on Wed 30 Oct, 06:48)

Philip, you’re not looking at parking for one employee. As someone as stated below, it is estimated that 150 work in the town centre. I have no idea how many of these are able to walk to work or catch public transport but it is vitally important that the workers that need to drive can park somewhere. The staff working at the nursery do a 10 hour day so putting time restrictions on the only parking left available would cause massive problems for them.
Why is it more important that a home owner can park outside their own home than someone else effectively being stopped from earning a living? I would much rather things just carry on as they are, the parking problem seams to have reached a plateau and I think most people are able to cope as it is?

Tue 29 Oct, 22:59

Has any thought been given to acquiring part of the field on the west side of Grammar School Hill to create a car park.

Tue 29 Oct, 22:22

Having read the proposals, the only possible;le outcome is that the problem will move to Hixet Wood, Pooles Lane etc. The reality is that we are not town that can has parking facilities for a booming town.  I'm not sure what the answer is, other than policing the double yellow lines, disabled bays etc. but is this realistically going to happen?

Tue 29 Oct, 21:22

The proposals look like a well meaning attempt to solve some of Charlbury’s vehicle parking problems, but they risk the Spendlove car park filling up with rail commuters UNLESS some consideration is given to additional restrictions there, e.g a reduction of the current 12 hour limit to 8 or less during the day. Expanding the station car park will help, but only in respect of those prepared to pay.

I sympathise with Gareth, but it it not more valuable to provide free short stay parking for multiple clients of the Co-op, vets, dentist, library, doctor etc than free all day parking for just one employee? 

Tue 29 Oct, 10:09

As below, exemptions/permits for workers, the purpose being to reduce commuter use. Ideally combined with an extension to the station carpark, as proposed by Liz Leffman.

Tue 29 Oct, 09:41 (last edited on Tue 29 Oct, 15:52)

If parking in the Spendlove was time limited, workers at several businesses in the town would leave and the businesses would be at risk.  Losing jobs and facilities would not be a good outcome.  Exemptions would be difficult to enforce, to put it mildly.

Tue 29 Oct, 09:37

Why is there no proposal for some form of paid parking in the Spendlove Centre? - eg 3 hours free parking, then you pay, with exemptions for workers. This works well in the Woolgate Centre, Witney. It would deter the commuters who are taking so many spaces, freeing up space for bona fide use of the facilities as well as Memorial Hall, pubs etc. Altogether it would have more effect on parking and traffic flow than all these other measures with less cost to residents.

Tue 29 Oct, 08:11

It would be more efficient if the bus drivers were also traffic wardens. And also if they had a sort of cow catcher they could fit to the bus to ram the cars in their way. 

Mon 28 Oct, 15:39

I think the question that many of us might ask is whether there will be traffic wardens regularly patrolling our town centre on Friday and Saturday evenings after 9pm to penalise those who ignore the double yellows at the top of Church Street (and in the process block the evening buses from proceeding into Church Street from Browns Lane). 

Mon 28 Oct, 11:58

The point about paid for parking is that it pays for enforcement.  At the moment any enforcement in Charlbury is a cost to the council tax payer, as opposed to being a cost paid by those who want to park.

Mon 28 Oct, 09:26 (last edited on Mon 28 Oct, 09:26)

Of course any new parking measures will be a complete waste of time and money unless it is policed and tickets issued on a regular basis at all times of the day, I know you can currently report people parking on dbl yellow lines but these reports are rarely followed up and we seam to have to jump through hoops send a photo, location and the type of offence you believe is being made reporting needs to made a lot easier and needs to be followed up.

Sun 27 Oct, 16:31

This is only possibly happening here, but it is happening elsewhere, have a look  at Oxford city itself. It's now nearly all residents permits (which operate the same way as described in this proposal). The only thing people in Oxford seem to argue (sureley have a reasonable debate about?) about are the LTN's, but not the residents in those areas. My workplace has reduced on-site parking and increased charges and that's ahead of the city employer car park space levy, set to be c.£650 pa. Yes Oxford city is not Charlbury, but people live and work there and commute there. One point, already made, is that the proposed restrictions will just move cars to other parts of the town in an ever increasing radius from the station and town centre. That potential impact should be part of the consideration i.e. just don't shift the problem, which could mean the consideration of permits, timed parking an yellow lines in other streets, roads and lanes. Just returing to my workplace, I will say that the mention of 'car parking' in amost any meeting is the proverbial 'dead-cat' being chucked in, it seems to be more emotive that pay, pensions, and other T&C's, although it's only car owners that get emotive; cyclists, pedestrians and users of public transport do not.

Sun 27 Oct, 12:58 (last edited on Sun 27 Oct, 12:59)

Thank you, Claire, I have now found a tiny map that's extremely difficult to read, even magnified to 200%. It wasn't below the respond button on my screen, but to the right on https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/charlbury_parking2024 There are also some further details plans below that.

It would be helpful if somebody on the Town Council could kindly print out the maps and have them displayed in a public venue where they can be viewed in colour and in close-up, e.g. on the wall by the Co-op. Having them displayed in the Library would also be good! 

I do note incidentally that Residents Parking Only is marked outside the Cognatum Retirement Housing on the Playing Close that all have their own garages.

Sun 27 Oct, 11:57

There is a map, you need to scroll right down, below the button for responding to the survey. 

Sun 27 Oct, 11:46

In my original post, I asked if anyone could supply a map of the proposed residents only parking bays. Nobody has replied.

I've looked again at what is proposed and note that what is specified is Residents Only Parking Bays on Pound Hill/Thames Street, Dyers Hill, Park Street, Sheep Street, Browns Lane, and The Playing Close. I am assuming that this means that all parking on those streets would be for residents only. 

But is that what is intended? If so, it would be rather odd, given that quite a few properties on those streets have their own garages. This includes all the retirement properties on the town side of the Playing Close, plus a few other properties on the listed streets.

Bays for Shared-Use Parking (permit holders, & also non-permit holders for various time lengths) are also proposed for  Church Street, on Market Street and Sheep Street, and on the east side of Grammar School Hill/Park Street. And there is also a proposal for 'No Waiting at Any Time' (i.e. Double yellow lines) – on parts of Pound Hill, Nine Acres Lane, Market Street, Browns Lane, Sheep Street, Park Street, Grammar School Hill/Park Street, and Dyers Hill.

There really needs to be more detail on the exact placement of the new restrictions. And, given the extent of the problems pointed out by Little Monkeys, I personally think that the proposed consultation should not go ahead until these details are clarified.

Sun 27 Oct, 11:26

The admins have had a confab and we can’t work out which one of us moved it across to the Debate board! I am moving it back for now and I’m sure you will all continue to be impeccably behaved.

Sun 27 Oct, 09:55 (last edited on Sun 27 Oct, 09:59)

The station car park costs £4.40 a day which is not a lot compared with other places.  It is full most days.  The problem isn't affordability, it is that some people who need to park there can't find a space and end up parking in the town.  The need is for an extension to the car park which I am discussing with GWR. There are some ideas we are looking at but as yet nothing that I can report. I recognise that this has to be considered alongside any changes to parking in the town centre.

Sat 26 Oct, 19:33

Could no OCC work with Network Rail/GWR to make parking at the station affordable, or even free if you've bought a rail ticket? Surely that would stop commuters parking elsewhere in the town, thereby freeing up some parking spaces for residents and employees.

Sat 26 Oct, 19:22

From a slightly selfish perspective, does this scheme not also just move the problems slightly further out of the permit holder areas, there’s already quite a lot of demand up Hixet wood (where we live as a for instance) for on the road spaces just from the residents who don’t have driveways/parking spaces, let alone all the extra people that will be looking for parking spots within relatively easy walking distance. Feels like the town requires actual additional parking to support its growth more than it needs a band aid parking scheme that will just result in annual permit fees, fines and upset all round the surrounding areas. 

Sat 26 Oct, 19:04 (last edited on Sun 27 Oct, 05:20)

This discussion really does need to be in the main Forum. 

It's the biggest issue the town has debated since I've been here, and it's exactly the kind of issue the Forum is good at debating. The materials we've had mailed to us, and the online survey, don't really bring out the complexity of some of people's questions. And the issue needs as much contribution, from as many people, as only a town as articulate as Charlbury can provide.

20-odd replies in, there hasn't been a hint of the - er, eccentricity - the Debate section is notorious for. But that - er, eccentricity -  means many won't open the Debate page. And that keeps potentially valuable contributors from making the points the County Council is so desperate to hear. 

Why is the County Council so desperate? Because next May, County Councillors are up for election.  And the first rule of politics is slightly different for voters and politicians.

For voters it's: "Whether they take your advice or not, there's no point in democracy if you don't tell your councillor (or MP) what you want"

For politicians it's "Whether you take their advice or not, there's no point in democracy if you don't know what your voters want" 

Which, moderators, is why there's one piece of advice both the politicians and the ordinary voters on this thread want you to take:

Move the thread to the main Forum

Sat 26 Oct, 11:02

I take it from Liz’s comment that businesses and services are not included in the parking scheme.  It seems to me we should be thanking the people who get up early and drive to Charlbury to look after our children, when they could probably earn more money in another sector working from home in their pyjamas.  If we lose places like Little Monkeys and Preschool, we’ll lose the primary school next, as families with young children will go elsewhere.  

Sat 26 Oct, 00:52

For what it's worth - about eighteen months ago I decided to share my car with another driver, and it's worked out well.   The car wasn't getting used much by me, which wasn't doing it any good; the new driver - who's become a good friend - probably drives it more than I do.   It wouldn't suit everyone: I'm retired, don't walk well, need wheels for the shortest journeys; my co-driver works from home but sometimes needs quite lengthy journeys.   (It wouldn't work if we both had to keep regular working hours, obviously).   Any potential conflicts are easily worked through.   The world's ecosystem hasn't had to manufacture a new car, which is a good thing; I've moved a resource into higher productivity, which makes me an entrepreneur.   

The thought wouldn't have occurred to me except for a post here that caught my attention.   So I offer it as a small suggestion for people trying to find an imaginative solution.   

(Some relatives came to visit the other day; first time they'd seen Charlbury.   They admired the trees - looking their autumn best - and the obvious community spirit, but they then enquired whether Charlburians had an addendum to the driving test that concentrated on parallel parking), 

Fri 25 Oct, 23:17

No idea why it's been moved from the main Forum to Debate. We're all being very civilized.

Fri 25 Oct, 18:19 (last edited on Fri 25 Oct, 18:30)

Yes Liz, but Woodstock has 100 free spaces off Hensington road. Burford has 161 free spaces at Guildenford, Spendlove has 26 spaces. 

The Bull Inn now employs 50 people according to a planning statement, The Bell Hotel probably more. 

Fri 25 Oct, 16:54 (last edited on Fri 25 Oct, 17:17)

The Spendlove car park will still be free. Oxfordshire has a Carers' Permit scheme which would be available to carers needing to park in the centre of Charlbury.  Woodstock has many more businesses than Charlbury and a similar scheme is working well there now. This is a consultation and the final plan will only be published once the consultation has concluded. And yes, why is this in the Debate section?!

Fri 25 Oct, 15:08

As I'm sure Gareth is aware, consultations tend to be dominated by affected householders with less pressure being exerted by legitimate users. About 150 people work in the centre of Charlbury including many low paid cleaners and carers. It is vital for the economic and medical wellbeing of Charlbury that these peoples interests are protected.

As a principle, parking restrictions should be minimised, but once agreed, enforcement should be maximised. 

Fri 25 Oct, 10:46

As with most things I suppose it's a question of supply and demand. Demand has obviously increased recently with both staff and visitors to the renewed pubs and other new restaurants. Reducing supply as an answer may need further consideration as it may have an impact on those businesses. Most villages and towns with a parking demand problem do have a parking area just outside the centre. 

Also, I think it's important not to use one's position to influence something that could be of advantage. 

Fri 25 Oct, 10:01

Mark - you make the point tellingly that the controlled parking area will need to extend for a wider area than that proposed.  We already see overspill parking on several roads that are not included, to the annoyance of residents there.

(For example, covering the entire area between The Slade/the station might lead to cars parked which would slow down the speeding rat-runners)

There was supposed to be engagement between the Town Council and businesses.  From Simon’s remarks, it doesn’t seem to have been terribly successful.

Fri 25 Oct, 05:51

Why has this been moved to the debate area? I think this is important that everyone knows about this consultation and has a chance to voice their opinions.

Thu 24 Oct, 22:46 (last edited on Fri 25 Oct, 20:19)

The consultation provides a considered response to a growing problem. Thank you colleagues in the different councils who have worked together to develop this.

The issue is that there are ever more vehicles trying to park in a finite number of spaces in central Charlbury. If we do nothing that situation will only get worse. 

It is a case of sharing out that finite resource as equitably as well can. Not everyone will get everything they would like. I've lived in locations where there are parking restrictions, and people get used to them very quickly.

Residents should have the expectation they can park a car reasonably near their house, but they can't have a right to park an unlimited number of vehicles. We can accommodate some visitors - but some people might need to park at a public car park and walk a little.  

Other people have rights too. Pedestrians should be able to walk around Charlbury without having to step into the middle of a busy road because cars have parked across the pavement - as is often the case on Sheep Street. 

Employers might have a space - but every employee can't expect to have their own on-street parking space in the centre of a busy town.  

Finally we need to manage any arrangements we put in place. I've recently noticed people parking on Dancers Hill before setting off towards the station - with their roll-on luggage in tow, the car then sits there for a week. 

Thu 24 Oct, 21:52

Its a shame that the consultation doesnt say whether local businesses will be able to buy permits - that seems a pretty important thing to know? 

Thu 24 Oct, 19:15

Between January and May, there were discussions including a well-attended meeting of the Traffic Committee of the Town Council, which I chaired.  At that point it was agreed to review the parking situation.

We know we have overspill from the station on at least three days a week.  We also have businesses, which is important for the town; some of which are more able and more willing to provide for staff parking than others.

There were discussions about how broadly any resident-only area should be drawn.  Different people in the town have different needs due to mobility and geography.  Many workers have been priced out of the town.  I argued for the whole town to be involved in that discussion, as any residents’ parking area will have an impact on these on the edge of it.

Sadly, it does look as if a very small area has been engaged since the May elections.  The important thing now is to engage with the consultation so that all people can give their views.

Thu 24 Oct, 18:48

You’re not wrong Chris. We have 93 children on our books. If we lose our valuable staff and have to close due to this parking nonsense, that will be approximately 180 parents looking for childcare. They need to be looking at the bigger picture.

Thu 24 Oct, 18:47 (last edited on Thu 24 Oct, 19:22)

Two partial solutions.

• Affordable and regular public transport, so people aren't so reliant on their cars. 

• Affordable housing, so people who want to work in Charlbury can also live in Charlbury.
• Also, make parking at the Railway Station cheaper or dare I say, free!

Most households have 2+ cars and those cars, mostly, are getting bigger all the time. The two points made above would help towards the problem, but it won't solve it. I don't know if there is an answer that will cater to residents, visitors, employees working in Charlbury, the environment, those with limited mobility, and that everyone in Charlbury will be happy with. 

Thu 24 Oct, 17:47

The rich trying to look after rich again standard Charlbury it seems. If you want parking guaranteed buy a house with a drive and a garage. You can’t reserve the road and spaces who are open to all. 

As simon points out, the selfishness of a few could have massive consequences for a lot. 

Thu 24 Oct, 15:59

Christine, these proposals are scary. I work in Little Monkeys on Church Street. We employ 23 people, 15 of these from outside Charlbury. Public transport is not an option for most (from looking at bus time tables, those who live in Carterton for example would be leaving at approximately 6.30am to enable them to be here for 8am and when finishing work at 6pm would get home around 7.30-8pm). Due to various start and finish times, lift sharing for most is not achievable. I am honestly concerned that if parking is made anymore difficult than it currently is, we will begin to lose staff and the consequences for the Nursery would be dire!

Thu 24 Oct, 14:49 (last edited on Thu 24 Oct, 14:56)

There is a consultation online about a resident's parking survey. What is proposed is not entirely clear, but it certainly disadvantages anyone who is not a resident of a few named central streets.

One principle states: "Only eligible residents may apply and proof of residency and vehicle ownership will be required on application." We are also told "Those properties which would be eligible to apply for permits would be residents of: Browns Lane, Church Lane, Church Street, Dyers Hill, Park Street, Sheep Street, Thames Street, and The Playing Close."

Another principle states: "Visitors are catered for by scratch-cards which last for 24 hours when used. 25 per annum are issued free and residents can purchase an additional 25 after a 6 month period for £31.50 (no charge for residents over 70) - maximum 50 per annum". I take it that "residents" here means residents in those few central streets, not residents of Charlbury more broadly considered, and also not those who live outside Charlbury, but who work in the Co-op or in the town centre.

What a nightmare -- including for those with limited mobility but who don't qualify for a Blue Badge (only available if the disability is likely to last three years or more).  

There's not a map of the places where the parking bays will be residents only, so it's not entirely clear just how restricting the proposals are. But it's a huge change and, as far as I am concerned, one that will disadvantage those wanting to shop or visit other facilities or friends in the centre of town. 

At the very least, I would have thought, residents of Charlbury outside these few privileged streets, plus those who work in the centre of Charlbury, ought to be able to be able to apply for 25 scratch cards a year, as well as pay for additional scratch cards. If there's a map that I have somehow missed, perhaps somebody could point out where it is to be viewed.