Bicester & Woodstock (Debate)

Sat 6 Jul, 17:00 (last edited on Sat 6 Jul, 17:01)

Relatives et al in Bicester voted LD so, sorry LD partisans, without Labour (and as many would really have preferred Green) without tactical vote the LD would not have turned up with another MP. 

Meanwhile I've heard nothing about the story I heard a long while back about a (Labour) education head councillor in a coalition in Cherwell being hung out to dry in the flaming of a predictably hostile Tory dominated press when a Coalition decision came under fire and said Coalition "partners" weren't seen for dust. And contributed to collapse of said coalition. Didn't want to raise this during the campaign period ... or was this story all a shovelful  just fit for the midden pile?

Fri 5 Jul, 19:51

Come on guys, give Richard a break lol...

Fri 5 Jul, 17:31 (last edited on Fri 5 Jul, 17:42)

Nick, give it a rest and try not being gratuitously unpleasant for once.

The local election results in Bicester & Woodstock between Lib, Lab and Con were remarkably close to the General Election result; that is a fact.  Nothing catty about it.

Despite a Labour campaign actively designed to hand the seat to the Tories by suppressing the Lib Dem vote through dodgy charts, Calum Miller secured a bigger majority than Sean Woodcock.  I wasn’t going to make that comment, but as Nick is being churlish…. others can play that game.

Fri 5 Jul, 14:27

Despite Gareth's catty remarks, it's crystal clear that many Libdems in Banbury ( particularly I think in Charlbury) voted Labour.  Just as it's clear that many Labour voters in Witney voted Libdem.  Don't know enough about Bicester to comment. Lets just celebrate rather than attack each other.

Fri 5 Jul, 13:15

It turned out in this case (less so for Banbury and Witney) that the local election results were the best prediction, with some of the projections way out.

Fri 5 Jul, 06:46 (last edited on Fri 5 Jul, 06:54)

Just heard Bicester and Woodstock went to Lib Dems which means it's a Tory wipeout in Oxfordshire. Well done people! 

Congratulations to all the winners in the county and commiserations to the losers. (Now we can stop "debating" the election on the forum ha, ha!)

Wed 3 Jul, 21:40

To adapt a phrase, "I agree with Ed!" 

Vote wisely & vote tactically. As Ed says in today's Guardian, a "handful of votes could make all the difference".

Tue 2 Jul, 09:53

Who is shouting at whom, to do what, where? Tactical voting is simply that: hold your nose, get off the moral high ground (however much you enjoy the view) and vote to remove this most amoral, incompetent, ruinous and cruel of governments. 

Mon 1 Jul, 21:39 (last edited on Mon 1 Jul, 22:54)

Tiresome double standards from some here.

Bicester & Woodstock is very clearly a two horse race between the Tories and Liberal Democrats: Labour have fewer posters there than Reform and don’t have a single councillor in the entire constituency.  The Daily Mirror today has recommended Labour supporters there vote for Calum Miller.

For Labour to win in Banbury, they need to convince supporters of the Lib Dems and Greens to vote tactically.  Unfortunately for them, they have selected a candidate with a record of antagonising those two parties.  That makes their task harder.  Labour supporters shouting at Lib Dems to stand down candidates is pretty anti-democratic and poor.

Anyway, I’ve been having fun putting up more posters in Kidlington and Bicester today, canvassing, and delivering leaflets for the excellent Calum Miller.

Mon 1 Jul, 20:10 (last edited on Mon 1 Jul, 20:16)

What you saw was a Thank You leaflet from me following the local elections and with some information about Liz Adams on the back.   I can assure you that I and others have been working our socks off in Bicester and Woodstock, which is why this leaflet has only just been delivered and you haven't seen anyone canvassing

Mon 1 Jul, 14:32

Funnily enough, Richard, I received a LibDem leaflet this morning! 

It did not last long! 

Mon 1 Jul, 14:30

Unfortunately Richard that isn’t the case, I saw a Liberal deliverer in Charlbury on Saturday and again today. Effort that might have been fruitful in Woodstock or Witney, don’t you think? 

Mon 1 Jul, 14:12

Chris, I think the point is that the LibDems’ canvassers and leafleters have toddled off to the other seats, unless you’ve seen any in Charlbury? (I haven’t.)

Good call on Witney and Bicester though. I see in today’s Clarion that Labour’s candidate is claiming “Witney has only ever had a Labour or Conservative MP”. Not sure that Shaun Woodward really counts…

Mon 1 Jul, 14:03

No, but probably on behalf of democracy and the bigger picture of getting the Tories out!

Mon 1 Jul, 13:38

I don't think he was campaigning on behalf of Keir Starmer!

Mon 1 Jul, 11:46

Good advice from Ed Davey today, as reported on the BBC website!

Mon 1 Jul, 11:39 (last edited on Mon 1 Jul, 12:34)

As the Liberals are clearly in third place in the Banbury seat, hopefully their campaigners will soon toddle off to the Bicester and Woodstock and Witney seats where their  time and efforts  will be better rewarded. I hear from many sources that a number of the rural Constituencies in Oxfordshire will be won or lost by 500 votes or less. 

Mon 1 Jul, 11:08 (last edited on Mon 1 Jul, 11:11)

No-one is "pushing" Liz.  She is absolutely entitled to be on the ballot paper and to send out an election address like every other candidate. It's called democracy. And it is up to the Labour candidate to persuade people to vote tactically for him, not up to the Lib Dems to promote him!

Mon 1 Jul, 09:41

The choices are Labour or Tory for Banbury. All the polls say it's close between SW and VP. All the tactical voting websites show it's best to vote for Labour in Banbury. A vote for any other party in Banbury is a vote for the Tories.

To get the Tories out in Woodstock, vote LD.

As Christine says, it's a bit rich for the LDs to keep pushing Liz Adams as a viable candidate when you all know she isn't going to win a majority here, and by voting for her, you're indirectly voting for VP.

Mon 1 Jul, 09:29 (last edited on Mon 1 Jul, 09:30)

In my email inbox today, Helen Lewis from The Bluestocking https://helenlewis.substack.com/ providing a list of key results to look out for, plus the time they are likely to be announced. Banbury does not feature, but Bicester and Woodstock does. 

"5am -- Bicester and Woodstock -- One-time George Osborne adviser Rupert Harrison is standing here. If Harrison wins, you would expect him to be a big player in the future of the Tory party, but the polls have it as knife-edge three-way marginal between him, Labour’s Veronica Oakeshott and the Lib Dems’ Calum Miller."

The LibDems have been trying to persuade people to vote tactically if they live in the Bicester and Woodstock constituency as it's (almost) a done deal that the LibDems will win, but not to vote tactically if they live in the Banbury constituency (because Labour will win nationally anyway). I find it a bit rich! 

Rupert Harrison describes himself as a Liberal Conservative, and it's really not clear who would be a better counter to Labour if they do indeed get elected on Thursday (and nothing is certain), the LibDem candidate or a Liberal Conservative who evidently has ambitions to become Tory leader. 

Mon 1 Jul, 08:33 (last edited on Mon 1 Jul, 08:35)

I think that a change of government is absolutely guaranteed. The question is....who will best represent us here?

Sun 30 Jun, 22:43

"if you want to see a change of government"

Sun 30 Jun, 22:10

Or vote for the party with policies that you agree with.  Personally, I could not vote for one that will not condemn the government of Israel for its aggression against Gaza.

Sun 30 Jun, 18:52 (last edited on Sun 30 Jun, 18:53)

Lib Dems confident of taking Tory seats once held by Cameron and Johnson

Interesting:

"Internal Lib Dem polling seen by the Guardian suggests there will be close races in Bicester and Woodstock, Didcot and Wantage, Henley and Thame – which includes much of Johnson’s former seat – and Witney, Cameron’s old constituency. The party believes each of these could be won by a margin of just 500 seats."

(N.B. Charlbury is now in the Banbury constituency, not Witney, and the tactical advice here is to vote Labour if you want to see a change of government.)

Tue 25 Jun, 15:16

Quite, beware the "shy Tories"!

Tue 25 Jun, 12:59

I tend to find the ones who swerve political discourse do so because they can't justify letting vast swathes of abhorrent policy slide to justify voting in a way that props up their cushy lives...

Tue 25 Jun, 11:07

Quite happy to have a pint Tony, that’s very kind of you. Sure our debates will remain good and robust going forwards. 😁🍻👍

Mon 24 Jun, 16:07

Chris I'm getting concerned about how often we agree these days, after another pint in the Rose!?

Mon 24 Jun, 14:12 (last edited on Mon 24 Jun, 14:16)

67.3 %  of the population decided to vote at the last election. - 1/3 of the population did not . When people’s political views are imposed on others through the forum and the problems it causes for the administration team , along with the subsequent fall out of petty disputes, the benefit is inconsequential to the forum users - so to say it is essential is a bit dramatic. But that that’s my opinion - and how I vote, is one of many things I keep personal and don’t expose others to my beliefs in the hot bed of the political world ! A lot of people getting hot under the collar and venting their battels here !  Just a different opinion.- I believe the 3 things are referred to as “ in polite company “  the family can be very dis functional ?   

Mon 24 Jun, 13:42

Only at family gatherings, Mark (but even there it has a place, I'd say!). But at a time when there is an election coming the outcome of which will dictate many aspects of our lives, private or public, talking about politics is essential. 

Mon 24 Jun, 12:22

Was there a saying the 3 things not to talk about were Politics, Religion and Money ????? For obvious reasons! ?

Mon 24 Jun, 10:14

Thanks, Claire. I’m 100% happy for people to discuss it here but there has been a little too much trolling – that is, deliberately starting a fight. There have been one or two occasions where I’ve seen a post and literally put my head in my hands, Picard-style,* because it’s obvious which way it’s going to go.

No one in Charlbury is up for election so there is absolutely no need for personal attacks.

* Jean-Luc, that is. Not Andy.

Mon 24 Jun, 10:00

I think Harriet might be right, Gareth is doing a spiffing job in suppressing the Liberal vote in Charlbury. Must have a word with 007, to just check he isn’t a double agent. We just have to hope he doesn’t toddle off to the Bicester and Woodstock seat or Witney seat and suppress the Liberal vote there, where they have a much better chance of winning. 😂😂😂

Mon 24 Jun, 09:10

Perhaps we could agree as a community to stop posting about the election on this site, respecting the impact it is having on Richard and the moderator team? 

Those who want to discuss the election could meet up in person, or switch to another platform like Facebook which has paid moderators and a legal team. 

Mon 24 Jun, 09:03

I echo Richard's weary tone.  If I knew how to do it I would upload Emily's picture of John Wick.  There is a lot of rubbish published during election campaigns.  Just get on and do the hard work, whichever side you are on.

Mon 24 Jun, 07:58

TBH Gareth, you are doing a lot to discourage people from voting for the Lib dems. It may be unintentional, and the way you come across on the internet, but I've spoken to several people who've said they won't be voting Lib dem after reading your comments on here. 

Sun 23 Jun, 21:52 (last edited on Sun 23 Jun, 21:53)

Emily - your descent into personal abuse says more about you than anything else.

You are not entitled to my vote, and neither is the Labour Party.  They have chosen the candidate least likely to appeal to natural Lib Dem and Green supporters by dint of his record in local government sidling up to the Tories on numerous occasions.  That is their decision and they have to live with it.

It is, of course, complete bollocks to say that a vote for the Climate Party, Independent, Lib Dems, Greens or sundry other parties is a vote for the Tories.

I am intensely relaxed about the position in Bicester & Woodstock where Calum Miller is neck and neck with the Tory, with Labour some way off.  Your claims will simply make you look very silly.  If the Labour Party spend as much time campaigning for local people there as they spend making spurious claims based on outlier projections, who knows?  They might have had a councillor there.

Sun 23 Jun, 21:24

Well said Emily it does indeed seem that certain people like Mr Epps and Mr Cox can get away with vitriolic and personal comments that most of us are picked up on which is why I and many others I speak to have stopped posting

No doubt our posts will generate more of the same!

Sun 23 Jun, 21:14

Where to start Gareth... you quote Carol Vorderman and endorse tactical voting and accuse me of trying to split the vote in Woodstock & Bicester - I wasn't, I was purely showing a projection list - yet you have gone out of your way since the election was announced to split the vote in Banbury by slandering Sean Woodcock, the Labour party, and anyone who dares support him, again and again. 

I don't know Sean personally, I don't know whether what you say he did in Cherwell was true or not. What I do know is that a vote for any other candidate other than Labour in Banbury is a vote for the Tories. 

You say I have "Labour pals" as if it's some conspiracy. Yes, I do, as I'm sure you have "LD pals". Is that also a conspiracy?

If I have indeed tried to split the vote, I have done no more than you have throughout this election cycle.

However, as always, it seems there is one rule for Gareth Epps and one rule for everyone else on this Forum.

I or someone else presents a poll, projection or article and you decry it as "dodgy", a "right-wing rag" or just plain wrong. However, you do the same and it can only be the truth, even if it comes from a Green Party blog or Corbynist rag. Not exactly without bias, are they? 

I'm sure you will respond with yet more insults, more links to polls and data that you approve of, all the while trying to split the vote in Banbury, even if it means a Tory MP for the people of Banbury and beyond. But hey, as long you're right, it won't matter, will it?

Sun 23 Jun, 17:20 (last edited on Sun 23 Jun, 17:23)

Here’s a projection based on a real poll.  Labour are fourth in Bicester & Woodstock.  
(I can’t seem to put graphics in here, but here’s the link)

Sun 23 Jun, 17:13

Ah, a Labour supporter using the Charlbury Forum to advocate AGAINST the tactical voting choice of Best for Britain, Compass and Carol Vorderman.

All while ramping a projection so dodgy it doesn’t disclose its sources (all others showing this seat, Henley & Thame and Didcot & Wantage as constituencies with narrow Lib Dem leads).

We all know Labour’s commitment to progressive politics is entirely skin-deep and self-serving.  Very like Tory Sean, in fact.  Emily and her local Labour pals are doing a good job….. at showing Labour up for what they are.

Sun 23 Jun, 15:14

For those of you who really want to talk about the Bicester & Woodstock constituency, here is a thread just for you!

Sun 23 Jun, 14:06

That isn’t polling. It’s a projection.

Sun 23 Jun, 11:55 (last edited on Sun 23 Jun, 14:37)

And for balance, here is the PROJECTION for Woodstock, which is incredibly close... I wouldn't want to be accused of doing a disservice to "my party".