Parking in Charlbury non action by WODC in Chippy

Wed 29 Nov 2023, 13:32

Sorry, am I being thick here? What's the point of planning permission if it can just be changed later? 

Wed 29 Nov 2023, 09:06

I just watched someone who was obviously parking to walk down to the station for the 08:27 train to Oxford/ London nab one of the rare spaces on Thames Street. 

I had a moment of 'do I or don't I' but didn't as I suppose we can't really stop people parking there for whatever reason? It is frustrating though...

Mon 27 Nov 2023, 16:04

The planning application 15/03626/FUL reduced parking from 15 to 12 spaces.

Before

After

The planning application 23/03022/LBC takes the proposed parking spaces down to 7.

Note: I don't have an opinion if planning should be granted, I am merely giving ease of access to the proposed parking space changes. 

Mon 27 Nov 2023, 13:40

The plans for the new car parking arrangements at The Bull are very hard to follow.

The application form for 23/02997/FUL, dated 8 Nov 23, |"Internal and external alterations including single storey rear extension and redesign of kitchen layout" has a box to be filled in headed "Vehicle Parking: Does the site have any existing vehicle/cycle parking spaces or will the proposed development add/remove any parking spaces?" What is ticked is the "No" Box. Is that really the case? 

The "no" box is also ticked on the other 2 application forms for changes to The Bull made available today. 

Although parking places do come up in some of the other documents relating to The Bull, no new total for the parking spaces is given, and the drawings are unclear. I couldn't work out whether it was proposed that there would be 9 or 7 spaces, certainly not 12. But, as Hans says, what is recorded in the text (elsewhere in the planning documents) is the loss of only one parking space.

Really, planning documents shouldn't be that difficult for members of the general public to follow!

Mon 27 Nov 2023, 08:48 (last edited on Mon 27 Nov 2023, 09:14)

15/03626/FUL states 12 parking spaces in Proposed site plan (this was approved).

Subsequently there has been a number of structures added to the car park - outside bar, log store, chill store and a much enlarged bin store. With the loss of up to 5 parking spaces. 

The siteplan from 15/03626/FUL has been presented in the new planning 23/03022/LBC as AMENDED siteplan. The text car park (12 spaces) has been erased, the bin store has been enlarged, and the movable outside bar has been added. It does not say how many parking spaces but it looks to be 9. The new site plan seems to indicate about 7 at best. The D&A states the loss of one parking space. Yes, it would be very hard to find out this, and noone would think of it. (Last sentence may contain irony).

Mon 27 Nov 2023, 07:29

Interesting to see WODC retrospective planning application 23/03022/LBC for The Bull ... it shows a lot fewer than 12 car parking spaces!

Where will the rest of them park? I think we should be told! 

Fri 24 Nov 2023, 07:41

@Liz why would the hypothetical ‘spare land’ for a car park be refused planning when it’s clearly some that is needed? That would be incredibly regressive from the council.

@Clive locals can park in The Bell if they’re customers, no problem. They’d obviously take issue with somebody using it as their personal parking space outside of that.

Tue 14 Nov 2023, 20:45 (last edited on Tue 14 Nov 2023, 20:46)

California State legally sanctioned car-sharing/hitchiking stops during a fuel or congestion crisis, doing something about money payments invalidating insurance cover being waived... Is my memory correct? And how could this be implemented here?

Lifts sociology aside: At Sussex Uni in the 70s it was only the rich kids ... and the small minority of working class and older students who'd had to wage-slave for their educational  "opportunities" ... who could afford vehicles (it helped to be a handy mechanic and welder - no, not the rich kids, they didn't need those). 

Now, guess which students were the ones to habitually stop at the "semi-official hitchhiking stop) lay-by just outside the campus entrance to pick up a pile of hitchers? (In a Wallace and Gromit A35 gray van with improvised from scrap wood fold-down bench seats in the back. I'd be put in prison nowadays for carrying 8-10 people in a little 850cc engined 20 year old van nowadays. Were they the good old days?).

Tue 14 Nov 2023, 17:36

Have we moved any closer to the Bull opening up the 4-5 extra parking spaces they are required to do? It will make a big difference I think. 

Mon 13 Nov 2023, 10:29

Years ago at Lancaster university there used to be a 'hitching post' - a formal sign on the outskirts of the town and another just outside the out-of-town campus, where people could officially wait for a lift. Could that work down at the station? 

Sun 12 Nov 2023, 19:57

Too many cars, too much reliance on cars.

Thu 9 Nov 2023, 21:21

Are locals allowed to park in The Bell as was the custom? Or do you have to have a big four by four and drive like a lunatic?

Thu 9 Nov 2023, 14:37 (last edited on Thu 9 Nov 2023, 14:39)

As I have previously posted, there was a bus service from the station to Charlbury, Leafield and Finstock around 2005.  It was subsided by OCC but was withdrawn due to lack of enough use to justify the subsidy.  The fares were very reasonable, eg 50p from the station to the Town Centre.

Thu 9 Nov 2023, 10:19

The Bull and the Bell already offer their patrons arriving by train a lift up from the station, the Bell uses an electric Land Rover Defender which the times write up says it offers complimentary transfers to and from Charlbury rail station what would be great is that they could offer to take locals down or up if they have spare seats. 

Thu 9 Nov 2023, 09:24

An e-shuttle from the station up the hill would be a great idea. I would be happy to pay towards it.

Surely the Town Council would support such a green initiative.

And surely too the Bull and the Bell would contribute since it would benefit any of their patrons who arrive by train and also mitigate the parking problems in the centre.

Thu 9 Nov 2023, 07:56

I can't be the only person who would always gladly give anyone a lift to or from the station, a simple kindness with the added benefit of helping them not put yet another car on our crowded and polluted roads. And, especially as I get older, I'd welcome being given a lift up the hill sometimes!

It's a question of how to organise it. In the perfect world an electric shuttle bus would do regular circuits of the town, including the station. In the real world, if anyone were to post here "I'd be glad of a lift to/from the station at [time] on [day]", I'd offer if I easily could, and I'm sure many others would.

Wed 8 Nov 2023, 15:55

Alan has amended his previous post, and now suggests using the local taxi service to get to the station and park for more than a day. 

There, I think, speaks somebody who has never tried to use local taxis for very short journeys! There's no taxi rank at the station or elsewhere in the town, and local taxi firms generally prefer clients who want to make long journeys rather than short ones. Phones are often not manned, and I have generally found it pointless even to ask. From my house (north of The Slade) I might be able to get a taxi to Witney, Woodstock or to Oxford Parkway, but am unlikely to get one to Charlbury Station.

Hence, I leave my car at the station when I have a suitcase to transport -- or, these days (recovering from a broken hip) to even walk that far without any luggage. 

A more useful use of volunteers would be ferrying people to and from the station into the centre of town.

Wed 8 Nov 2023, 14:33

The car park also needs to cater for people who live outside Charlbury but have to drive to work there. Short stay places won't cover that. Where do the staff of the various pubs park, or are they all from Charlbury?

Wed 8 Nov 2023, 13:27

For those of us who live in Charlbury but not in the centre of the town, and who are also elderly or have mobility issues, parking in the Coop car park is the only way to realistically access Charlbury shops, churches, businesses, community facilities and even visit friends. 

Having only short-stay parking spots at the Coop is a really bad idea. Very few of the people who have mobility difficulties qualify for a blue badge. 

There are plenty of places reserved for blue badge holders or mothers and children (and usually with spaces to spare), but most of those with mobility problems are unable to legally park there. A thriving town centre needs to provide access to a broad range of visitors and residents. 

Wed 8 Nov 2023, 12:46 (last edited on Wed 8 Nov 2023, 13:24)

The station parking system seeks profit over community convenience.

SPENDLOVE CAR PARKING

The more urgent need  for some is to deal with the Spendlove parking problem. Even the space in front of the green bins is often taken up.  A major cause of congestion is likely to be train passenger parking.

The key to the Spendlove parking problem is to establish how many people park for longer than, say, 60 minutes to allow for dentist and GP appointments.  

That would require 9 to 6 surveillance.   A volunteer could keep a list up to date for an hour and pass it on to the next volunteer.  Say, an hour at a time.

I offer my clipboard.

Residents who want more than a day at the station car park could use our local taxi service.

Wed 8 Nov 2023, 11:01

Residents of Charlbury certainly do need longer than a day (or even 3 days) parking at the station! And the weekly and monthly charges are also not unreasonable.

I am amongst those who leave my car at the station when taking trips away by train. And would really miss this facility, especially now that trains from Oxford Parkway Station are less reliable (and slower) than before Covid. 

Wed 8 Nov 2023, 09:58

Christine, maybe the solution to that would be to make the maximum allowable time that you can park there 23 hours and 59 minutes? And a big fine payable if you exceed that time? But maybe some Charlbury commuters need to use it for longer? I would not know ...

Another place where cars could be parked (albeit not the best place) is the "VanderNOTbilt" site on Hixet Wood, which seems to have been left in a state of abandonment and dereliction for some months now. Get it all levelled off and you could fit loads of cars in there! 

Wed 8 Nov 2023, 09:20

Simon, when GWR is working properly spaces are needed for rail travellers. Prior to Covid, parking at Charlbury Station was often impossible, and there have been times since then when it has been very difficult.

Making the charges too cheap increases the number of vehicles left there -- usually by commuters based in Chipping Norton, Burford or nearby villages -- for days at a time. 

The charges are administered by APCOA and in such a way as to harmonise with the parking charges at Long Hanborough and Kingham. 

The charges are, incidentally, much lower than at Didcot or the main Oxford station, and even slightly cheaper than Moreton-in-Marsh or Worcester Parkway. The automatic payment system (Apcoa Connect) works well, and at £3.20 for 24 hrs off-peak (£4.20 all day, including peak times) is certainly entirely affordable by those eating at The Bull or in other town centre restaurants. 

The question is not affordability, but the fact that people don't want to (or also can't) walk up from the station for their meals and/or drinks.

Tue 7 Nov 2023, 21:28

Could a discussion be had with GWR by the town council over parking costs?  If it is genuinely felt that the train station is causing parking issues in the town, surely an easy solution is to reduce or scrap the parking charges. 

Tue 7 Nov 2023, 18:00

The comments made regarding the issues in Thames Street and the arrival of revised parking and line marking has not altered or changed as a result of the opening of the new restaurants and hotels / pubs , and has always been a problem . The ripple effect and a greater number of ‘working from home ‘ has been one major factor, as the railway users saving the daily charge !

Tue 7 Nov 2023, 13:42

There are parking spaces at the Bull but perhaps not as many as the original 12. Yes I am the person who objected to extending the yellow lines and as a resident of Thames Street I can assure you the chaos has not disappeared. Cars continue to mount the pavement outside of my house to pass each other  and parking for residents continues to be a lottery due to commuter parking on what limited parking spaces are now available. There is  gridlock at the junction several times per day.

Mon 6 Nov 2023, 21:47

If DC's comment is aimed at me, I never suggested that it would solve Charlbury's parking problems and yes there are many things going on in the world that are more important, but over which I can have no influence. As a local person, I can at least be vigilant as to local planning matters. The potential loss of up to 12 spaces IS significant.

Was it the same Mr Cook who opposed a small extension of yellow lines at the bottom of Nine Acre?  That was a result for WODC, the Town Council and local residents as the chaos has disappeared and the junction made safer.

Mon 6 Nov 2023, 18:02

Do you honestly believe creating extra parking for one or two cars at the Bull with solve Charlbury's parking problems. Suggest you people get a life and worry about more important issues we are facing in today's uncertain world.

Mon 6 Nov 2023, 15:34

Putting up a moveable structure in an underused pub garden is one thing, but reducing the number of parking places that formed an integral part of a previous planning application and consent is a rather different matter.

Mon 6 Nov 2023, 12:39 (last edited on Mon 6 Nov 2023, 17:50)

I read that note about permitted development rights. Special rules appear to apply for listed buildings, Bull Inn is Grade 2.

"Listed pubs, restaurants, cafes and historic visitor attractions will be able to erect a moveable structure for 120 days in a 12-month period, subject to prior approval by the local council."

So it seems they do need approval. 

Mon 6 Nov 2023, 12:16 (last edited on Mon 6 Nov 2023, 12:27)

Under post covid Government changes, The Bull (and any other establishment) are allowed to erect marquees/tents without planning permission. 
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/boost-for-high-streets-and-businesses-as-markets-and-outdoor-marquees-allowed-permanently

There’s nothing that can be enforced to change that, as they’re within the rights to use the space in that manner.

Sun 5 Nov 2023, 15:59

Planning application 15/03626/FUL reduced parking spaces at The Bull from 15 to 12.

https://www.westoxon.gov.uk/planning-and-building/planning-permission/view-planning-applications/

Sun 5 Nov 2023, 00:17

Regarding the "inner centre" of Charlbury, a certain "catering" establishment is supposed to have 12 parking spaces on its premises (according to previous Forum posts), many of which are occupied by a tent-like structure and BBQ equipment and the like. Restoring these spaces would surely ease parking problems in this area. This needs to be enforced!

Sun 5 Nov 2023, 00:09 (last edited on Sun 5 Nov 2023, 00:10)

The need for space for sport, play and recreation is greater than the need to concrete over playing fields to accommodate oversized, polluting vehicles whose owners can generally afford off-road parking if they can afford to waste fuel on the things.

Sat 4 Nov 2023, 15:25

As shown in a recent post in a different post, the land behind the Community centre - space for 12 vehicles ( including Range Rovers ) ! 

Fri 3 Nov 2023, 20:42 (last edited on Fri 3 Nov 2023, 20:47)

WODC owns the Spendlove car park, but where would more spaces come from?  There isn't any more space to use. If someone wanted to turn a piece of spare land into a car park they would have to get planning permission and that in my view would be extremely unlikely to be granted

Fri 3 Nov 2023, 13:39

 Ah thanks, so who has the authority to approve more spaces in Charlbury? I don't think people want a 7 year review?!

Fri 3 Nov 2023, 12:49

The review only relates to WODC owned car parks - not to on street parking

Fri 3 Nov 2023, 12:09

Residents hit by Parking Fines!

Chipping Norton’s town centre parking capacity (all free) has increasingly become an issue……..back in 2016 WODC last parking strategy, there were many recommendations and nothing has been done.

Now there will be a moratorium on penalties until another DISTRICT wide review is finished.

Former Mayor Jo Graves stressed the issue of town parking had gone on for years including different studies and said frustratingly” NOTHING gets resolved”!