Public meeting in Charlbury to discuss the snow crisis?

Mon 25 Jan 2010, 10:55

I don't think the new regime will be 'more stringent' nor is it supposed to be. Hopefully it will be more practical and better value for money as the wardens, who are out and about anyway, will be able to cover other matters as well---as it says in the news item.

The burglars presumably had the advantage of not using a heavy recycling vehicle nor having to go up the 'treacherous side roads'.

Sun 24 Jan 2010, 23:10

I'd noticed that as well Caroline. If I were a cynical person I might suggest that the Council are prioritising services that make them money at the expense of those that cost them money, but surely that can't be true can it?

I also note from reading this website that burglars made it safely to Charlbury on the "treacherous" roads last week in order to rob the Co-op a good three days before the recycling lorry. If only they could have emptied the bins while they were here!

Sat 23 Jan 2010, 21:24

Am I the only one to have noticed the contrast between WODC/OCC's eargerness to impose parking fines on roads in the town with the introduction of a more stringent inspection regime,as reported in the News section, with the apparent neglect of thoroughfares for two weeks after the snowfall?

Thu 21 Jan 2010, 13:00

I’ve just received a letter from OCC, in response to my complaint. An officer from Environment and Economy directorate has been asked to contact me. That will be interesting!

Thu 21 Jan 2010, 09:32

Derek -

Yes he does - the pavement is indeed part of the public highway, whereas your personal paths to front doors etc definitely aren't.

"The salt in these bins is for use on the public highway and is there for anyone to spread, however, I am aware of instances where salt/grit has been removed for personal use"

Wed 20 Jan 2010, 18:11

I fully accept that the snow "problem" is nowhere near comparable to what is happening in Haiti. There is a character limit on the length of thread titles and I had to condense down my original title, which was something like "Do we need a public meeting to discuss the ongoing severe weather situation?". "Crisis" was shorter and snappier and stopped the title getting truncated by the software!

The leaflet could surely come from central government? It would be more useful to most people than leaflets telling us what to do in the event of swine flu or nuclear war or those advising us to eat five pieces of fruit and veg a day!

Wed 20 Jan 2010, 16:39

Firstly, I have to say that for me, defining this as a 'crisis' seems over inflated when every evening I watch the news to see the devastation in Haiti. However, I can appreciate that on a personal level to others the distress the snow caused may be a crisis for them.
I totally agree that additional salt bins are required around key areas of Charlbury. However, I don't want the expense on my council tax of having every pavement and road cleared by the council of snow and ice whenever we get snow. I also don't want the expense of a leaflet telling people of their rights and responsibilities. Having a jolly band of volunteers to clear the the pavements wouldn't work, afterall very few were cleared with this last snow and I doubt it was because people were fearful of litigation. I believe it's because people either didn't want to or feel it was not there community responsibility. We have to except that Charlbury, like many towns across the country does not have a strong enough community spirit to clear the pavements of snow (there are exceptions around the town, but I'm talking on the whole). I think the problem is we are all quite self reliant in our nice warm homes, lots of us, (me included,) jump in our cars, or on the trains to go work and/or shop outside of Charlbury. If everyone in Charlbury worked, shopped, lived their daily lives in and around the town parish I think there would automatically be a greater effort to clear the roads and pavements so the town could continue to function as normal. (I may be still tainted by seeing on the tv the amazing community life exhibited in the Mumbai slums in Kevin McCloud's latest series)
We may get a lot more snow yet as we are not half way through this winter so the real crisis may not have reached us yet!?

Wed 20 Jan 2010, 15:12

Please don't let us fall out over semantics Diana! My definition of the word "highway" was taken from the Concise Oxford English Dictionary, in which it is defined as "a public road". That seems pretty unequivocal to me! If one followed your reasoning to its logical conclusion then surely the Highways Agency would be responsible for gritting the pavements, when in fact we know that they have struggled to keep even the motorways clear in recent weeks!

I think it is fair to say that the current situation regarding gritting is it best very confusing and at worst an utter shambles. We obviously need more grit bins in Charlbury. Those bins should be clearly labelled "Available for use by the general public but not for personal use and to be used for gritting the public highways only (which includes the pavements)"! Leaflets should be sent to all residents informing them of their rights and responsibilities in the event of severe weather, i.e. who should grit and what should be gritted. Some public body (or perhaps a team of well-organized volunteers) should be responsible for gritting key stretches of pavement (such as that leading to the station) which do not abut onto anyone's property. I hope our Town/District/County Councillors will make strong representations to the apppropriate bodies to ensure that some or all of these measures are put in place before next winter.

Wed 20 Jan 2010, 12:34

Derek, you are wrong on the pavement not being public highway:
"The public highway, as defined by law, consists of any verge, footway, carriageway, bridleway or footpath that is maintained at public expense and over which the public has a right of way."

Wed 20 Jan 2010, 12:03

Well I think that we , as a community, must be realistic. We cannot expect all roads, streets, pavements etc to be cleared instantly. I saw snow ploughs on the Slade on a couple of occasions, the first one at 5pm on the wednesday, the day of the fall, which was laudable in my opinion, as well as salt spreading lorries, also one individual loading the boot of his car from the pile of salt which had been deposited at the top of Woody Lane !!
What I did not see, however, was much of a community effort to shovel it away, those with 4 x4's packed it down and those without slid around.

Wed 20 Jan 2010, 10:40

He doesn't actually say that Chris. He says "The salt in these bins is for use on the public highway". The public highway is the road, not the pavement. Therfore, taken at face value, Cllr Rose's email states that private individuals should not use Council grit to salt the pavements. However, I will be writing to Cllr Rose later this week seeking to clarify this issue and others raised by his email.

Wed 20 Jan 2010, 09:05

Derek - He refers to theft for 'personal use' - that's using it to grit your drive or path from the highway to your (front) door - and not the footway / path alongside the road outside your property, which is public right of way.

Tue 19 Jan 2010, 18:32

My email to David Cameron (which was mainly concerned with non-gritting of the pavements during the pre-Christmas cold snap, but touched on other issues as well) has elicited the following response from Cllr Rodney Rose at OCC. He has agreed that I can post his response here.

Dear Mr Collett

…

Long post - click to read full text

Tue 19 Jan 2010, 08:47

David Cameron (or more precisely one of his staff) replied in a similar vein when I complained on behalf of Charlbury Buiness Community about Royal Mail delivering business post in the town centre in the mid or late afternoon. Nothing happened and the service deteriorates.

The difference between David Cameron and Glena Chadwick, in my experience, is that a letter to Glena produces more results. Cllr Neil Owen has also got us more salt bins (coming soon), and the existing ones refilled.

Mon 18 Jan 2010, 23:17

I told John Parkinson your idea Richard, and he thought it was excellent and will pass it on to the people directly involved.

Mon 18 Jan 2010, 19:30

I have also had a response from an email to David Cameron about the severe weather. He is going to take up the matter with OCC and get back to me in due course, which is helpful and constructive in my opinion, at least in the short term, although obviously we must wait and see what the eventual outcome is.

Mon 18 Jan 2010, 18:49

Anna, please tell us about the "sympathetic and constructive" response you had from David Cameron. Did he say anything useful?

Mon 18 Jan 2010, 15:42

Seems an excellent idea to me Richard---I'll forward the suggestion to John P.

Mon 18 Jan 2010, 15:11

Thanks for following all this up, Glena.

At the risk of sounding like a keyboard-bound "instant expert", might it be possible for WODC to operate a "bring your own rubbish" service next time this happens? In other words: put the bin lorry at the Spendlove for an hour, and let people bring their full bin-bags along. Do the same somewhere on the Slade, and so on.

It wouldn't work for everyone, of course; but certainly I'd prefer to spend ten minutes hauling bin-bags across Charlbury than have a big pile of them sitting out by the door as at present, and it might mean the backlog didn't get too big.

Mon 18 Jan 2010, 14:59

The reply I received from WODC (John Parkinson) today is this :-
'The problem we had was that whilst the main roads were passable the side roads were treacherous and far too dangerous to put 26 tonne vehicles on. I accept that food deliveries were made and people like the postman got around but they were providing a very different service. Large refuse lorries in icy side streets are a significant risk, especially to parked vehicles and property, if they start to slide. Equally trying to drag a bin through deep snow hour after hour is hard work in the extreme. We were in fact luckier than some of our neighbouring authorities where the bin men refused to go out. I can only apologise that Charlbury didn't get a service but we were doing our best in very difficult times.
We plan to be back on schedule today with all waste cleared up by the weekend. Clearly there will be a lot out there as many households have additional waste.'

Mon 18 Jan 2010, 13:09

I am sorry Anna that you found my response to you 'unhelpful and almost patronsing'. I anwsered immediately and took over half on hour to write a very long and detailed response going over all the points that you made. I conceded that because I had not had my own car out, a lot of my information came from friends, the forum or the offical messages from WODC. I also tried to explain (which perhaps you found patronsing---I'm sorry) which council had responsiblity for what. I agreed that we need more grit/salt bins and said that I had encouraged Neil Owen to get the OCC to provide more. I also got back to you twice---once because I realised I had not covered one of your points and secondly to apologise that you had obviously found my response inadequate but to explain that I thought it was reasonable. I have since got in touch with one of the WODC officals about the point raised here by Graham W.(about rubbish collections) and have just had a reply from him. If he agrees I will put it on the forum.

Mon 18 Jan 2010, 11:33

Hi Derek,
I totally agree with you on this subject matter. I wrote to our MP, David Cameron, and to both District Councillors. I found the response I received from David Cameron's office sympathetic and constructive, whereas the response from the councillors unhelpful and almost patronising. I thought they were meant to represent us, but perhaps I am wrong!

I support and second the points you have raised, and thank you for doing so.

Mon 18 Jan 2010, 09:08

THe dairy are self-employed business people and are in charge of their own risk assessmdents and well-being in the snow - the dustmen are protected unionised labour, employed by local authorities who take every negative point in risk assessments at face value.

Sun 17 Jan 2010, 20:57

Its amazing that milk can get into Charlbury and delivered around by an electric float, papers arrive at their shops then onwards via paperboys/ girls, Coop get deliveries everyday, but the council can't collect refuse - what can I say!!!!

Fri 15 Jan 2010, 21:11

Thanks Susie, I will do that.

Fri 15 Jan 2010, 13:54

Derek, if you would like to email Roger Clarke, the town clerk, then this would be discussed under correspondence at the next Town Council meeting on 27th January. His email address is charlburytc@btinternet.com

Fri 15 Jan 2010, 13:04

Does anyone else feel that it would be a good idea to hold a public meeting in Charlbury in the next few weeks to discuss the response of local authorities (and other organizations) to the recent spell of cold weather? I was thinking of something along the lines of the two First Great Western meetings chaired by David Cameron in 2008. I think it would be a good idea if local residents had the chance to quiz town and county councillors, representatives of Royal Mail, etc. and to hear what is being done to prevent Charlbury being so badly affected next time we experience severe weather.

Points that could be raised include the following:
Non-gritting of roads and pavements.
Lack of recycling and refuse collections.
Dog bins left overflowing for weeks on end, even during the milder, post-Christmas weather.
Shops running low on food and milk amid accusations of stockpiling.
Failure of railbus to operate, despite much of its route being clear of ice and snow.
Lack of post in most parts of Charlbury for a week or more.
Effect on local shops and businesses if people feel unable to walk around the town safely.
Should residents clear paths and pavements or not?

That should keep us going for an hour or two! I feel very strongly that Charlbury has been treated like an insignificant rural backwater this winter and just left to fend for itself. Much the same thing happened last February, so lessons are obviously not being learned. Why should we always be The Town That Grit Forgot? Perhaps one of our local councillors will take the bull by the horns and try to arrange such a meeting.