Identity Cards

Wed 23 Nov 2005, 20:33

In response to ID cards, they (criminals) will be able to make up false cards, as we have seen with credit cards and even car documents, yes I have even had my car cloned (company one at that) and it worked to my advantage - buts thats another story. Its the same as the Gun law, after the dreadfull incident in Dunblane all guns were to be registered etc and gun related sport was stopped. But has it stopped guns being used no, can you imagine a criminal thinking " Befrore I rob / hold up / kill etc etc, is my gun registered, better do that before I do it then". At the end of the day If they want an ID card, gun or even car reg. details etc, they know someone who can arrange it. And anyway Guns dont kill people, people kill people!

Wed 23 Nov 2005, 18:15

AMEN Graham!!! As one who worked for Jobcentre Plus, I can tell you this won't stop benefit fraud AT ALL. As it is, people have to bring in birth certs,passports and other ID,so they get FAKE ONES. Well, real ones with fake info, if they are really serious about trying it on. This new system will be just as open to fraud.There won't be a way of testing the validity of these cards any better than there is of checking the validity of a passport at the moment.
Would be bombers would simply buy one on the black market (stealing the identities of the deceased is very common) and as the London bombers were fully paid up Brits, I don't see how Phoney Blair thinks that these expensive pieces of plastic will help in that situation....
As this goverment steam rollers along, gathering momentum from nanny state to police state, all they are doing is setting up innocent people like me to get a criminal record, because I will NOT be shelling out a farthing of my hard earned cash for one of these things.
As Graham said, a total bunch of sphericals!
Kate

Mon 21 Nov 2005, 21:15

Isn't a passport a form ID along with your NHI / NHS card, driving license, credit/ bank card, employment ID card, Sports club membership card, even the local videoshop card or how about your Co-op divi card and your Pay as you Go mobile phone top up card, and his Tonyness wants me to have another one and for me to pay for it... ROUND objects thats B*ll**ks in my language

Sun 20 Nov 2005, 19:53

OK Gareth believe what you will, goverment still will have all the info it needs about you.
Was never just about bombings its, it just a fact of life , so you have no id cards of whatever kind!!

Sun 20 Nov 2005, 14:31

So Geoff you're happy to have the government accumulate all sorts of data on you - and charge you for it? (Not to mention the tax rises/spending cuts necessary to pay for the £10 billion plus that it will cost...)

And it did *so* much to stop bombings in Madrid etc

Fri 18 Nov 2005, 09:25

No I am not missing the point,just can not see what all the fuss is about, ID cards or not all your info!! would still be availiable to various organisations if needed. You need security,certainly stop the problem of being asked for passport or driving licence which a lot of people do not have,and having to go home and obtain a bill of some sort to prove who they are.
Problem these days is every one is so suspicious of everyone else,nothing could be on your id that is not already known by others already!

Thu 17 Nov 2005, 22:50

You are missing the point - and the "forces of repression licking their lips in anticipation of the opportunity" are making pretty certain that if you depend for your information on the BBC or the corporate dominated "media" like the comic newspapers, are making quite sure people are missing the point.

The point is "Linked databases" and "surveillance technologies". Though being asked for "papiers bitte" is going to be bad enough.

Thu 17 Nov 2005, 15:40

Police state!, Id cards have been around for years, during the war, passports, all the services military and civil personel,door callers poppy sellers your national insurance card, driving licence etc, what ever do these objectors think they have to hide? just think of all the computers your info is on.ive had to carry one all my working life.

Mon 14 Nov 2005, 20:20

We are moving rapidly towards a police state. I am utterly opposed to identity cards. Not having them has been a distinguishing part of our culture. Freedom to protest, habeas corpus, trial by jury, one after another Blair is destroying what is valuable in our society. For other comments on local and national politics google blairy england

Fri 11 Nov 2005, 09:30

For what it is worth I agree with Identity cards if not to try to stop benefit fraud both from uk citizens and also our friends from overseas who have always seen this country as a soft touch.
An added benefit to this is to try to get a handle on fanatics intent on blowing up parts of our internal travel infrastructure.
This will alienate a certain section of the community but that is the price for freedom, a fact that on this day remembering the war dead must make the politicians who voted against the 90 days bill feel really proud.

Thu 10 Nov 2005, 19:40

Hopefully, with the Governments defeat over detaining people without charge for 90 days, they may be less inclined to push ahead with ID cards - although I wouldn't bank on it. With regard to loyalty cards, they are great if you want endless junk mail as the lists are sold to all and sundry.

Wed 9 Nov 2005, 22:46

I do have a problem with Identity cards. Governments have known for many years now that the main threats that they face are internal (by that I mean us) and not external. Identity cards will be great for the government, because it's not the card that matters. It is the data obtained, by the use of the cards. All the data can be linked and used in some very inventive ways. And it will be. We, at our peril, let this happen, because today's government is not tomorrows and the data will ALWAYS exist.

This data will be used to target suspicious behaviour, which may include your (current) freedom to disagree with the government. Indeed it is sometimes necessary to break to law to change the way society is. In the past this would include things like the suffragettes (Emily Davison) and many other worthy causes. So it is the intimidation value of the ID data that the government wants, that will help control us. Terrorists are not intimidated by this, when on a one way journey. But ordinary people are. Employers will have to verify ID with the government system before some one can commence employment! May be in future we will have to check our neighbours ID weekly and also report any suspicious behaviour!

You just have to look how the new anti-terrorism laws are being used to stop and hold people, like the the anti-war protesters (like me) and the fuel campaigners (not like me), who have just been trying to demonstrate, to see how the ID data will be used and abused in future by the Police/Government (remember that the Police are the Governments militia for controlling us).

Just look at how loyalty card data is used in supermarkets, and how fast people are, to give up their profile and identity for a few pence off.

Freedom once lost is not so easily regained and as our society becomes more and more intolerant, totalitarian, and "secure" we imprison ourself.

Even if we had a 7/7 attack (where 50 people died. One's friends, family or self) every week I would still not agree, or support ID cards. Terrorists win when our society becomes frightened and throws away it's freedoms.

As for criminals, that is us, is it not. Everyone breaks the law at some time....

Wed 9 Nov 2005, 17:56

Personally Ive nothing against ID cards as such (I had one during the War, as baby Heeks) but why the hell should we be expected to pay for something thats being forced on us & holding goodness knows what private information of ours

Thu 27 Oct 2005, 22:33

Well with the might of West Oxfordshire District countil against ID cards, I can just see Charles Clark trembling at the dispatch box! Incidentally one of the few times I have agreed with the council in recent years...

Fri 21 Oct 2005, 11:32

On Wednesday West Oxfordshire District Council passed (unanimously I think) a motion opposing compulsory ID cards (although an amendment taking a tougher line to them fell).

Thu 20 Oct 2005, 21:02

Report on ID Cards Meeting in Oxford (in the right place now)

Please find below the report on the very successful meeting last Thursday:

A fight is on the cards!

The breadth of opposition to the Government’s proposed Identity Cards was confirmed at a public meeting held in Oxford on thursday, which attracted an audience from across the political spectrum.

The meeting was first addressed by Ed Vaizey, the new MP for Wantage. Ed is a Guardian columnist and a rising star in the Conservative Party. He began by affirming the importance of grass roots movements such as No2ID and warned that the ID Cards Bill would create a ‘sinister’ compulsory relationship between citizen and state.

Ed went on to state that an ID card would not solve any of the problems the Government had claimed for it. It would have little impact on benefit fraud (95% of which is due to over-claiming, rather than identity theft), and would not help combat terrorism (the terrorists of 9/11, the Madrid bombings and the London bombings all had valid means of identification). Indeed, an ID card might even aid the terrorists by introducing a ‘false sense of security’. Ed concluded by detailing the impracticalities of the card which made use of ‘untried technology on a scale never before envisaged’ and would be of enormous cost (£300-£350 at current estimates, payable by the individual or through taxation) – wasting money that could be used on improving the security services and increasing the numbers of police.

Anna Ellis then gave a presentation, explaining the technical deficiencies of the proposed card. Anna is a senior database administrator for a multinational blue chip company and has direct experience of the technology involved – which made her conclusions all the more chilling. Under the proposed Bill, the Government will be able to demand 51 classes of information on each citizen: enough to detail everyone’s life history. From here it would be a short step to introducing RFID (Radio Frequency Identification) tracking on to the card – the technology already exists – meaning that the Government would know where every citizen was, all of the time.

Anna continued by drawing attention to the shortcomings of the cards. Identity theft would still be possible (fingerprints can be spoofed), and it would be possible for criminal gangs to scan the cards without the owners’ knowing it. Microsoft has advised that the encryption the Government plans to use will be insecure. Neither could the national database be 100% accurate. What’s more, the cards would wear out in five years, when their cost would have to be met again.

Two Liberal Democrats then took the stage. Steve Goddard, who was narrowly defeated by Andrew Smith in the Oxford East constituency, asserted that the cards would mean a ‘state leap to authoritarian control’, and warned that a future government could demand that more information on each citizen be placed on the National Identity Register. ‘Can future governments of the Right or Left be trusted?” Finally, Dr Evan Harris, MP for Oxford West & Abingdon and a former Liberal Democrat Shadow Secretary of State for Health, gave a talk on the human rights implications of the Identity Cards Bill. Evan is a member of the Joint Select Committee on Human Rights and suggested that the proposed Bill could be challenged as contravening Articles 8 and 13 of the European Convention on Human Rights concerning the right to privacy and the freedom of action and thought.

Representatives from the Green Party also emphasised the cross-party unity that existed in opposing ID cards. This, together with the depths of feeling shown in Oxford Town Hall on Thursday night, revealed that the Government will certainly have a fight on its hands in Oxford if it goes ahead with implementing its plans.

Phil Harriss
Press Officer, No2ID Oxford

NOTES TO EDITORS
1 Further information: Oxford No2ID Campaign: www.no2id-oxford.org email: admin@no2id-oxford.org; philip.harriss@ntlworld.com or phone Bill Meloti, chairman of Oxford No2ID

2 Oxford County Council recently passed a motion (by 56 votes to 8) stating that it will refuse to demand that claimants for its services should produce ID cards.

3 Oxford City Council passed a motion on October 4 reasserting its ‘deep-rooted opposition to the introduction of Identity Cards and a National Identity Register’. There were 31 votes in favour and 5 against.

4 The Third Reading of the Identity Card Bill is due to take place next Tuesday (18 October).

No2ID-Oxford.org Discussion Forums:
www.no2id-oxford.org/forum/

No2ID-Oxford.org Website/Email Administrator:
admin@no2id-oxford.org

No2ID Campaign: www.no2id.net

Thu 20 Oct 2005, 16:11

By and large the news, events and main forum sections are for items relating to Charlbury town issues only - occasionally West Oxfordshire as a whole. The off-topic board is there for anything else. This should in itself exclude ID cards, which, whatever you might think of it, is a national issue.

That said, there may occasionally be items up that don't please everyone - that's why each item has a contributor's name at the bottom, and why it says "all postings are the opinions etc. etc." in the site footer.

I've been away from Charlbury (and without access to the site database) for a couple of days but will fix it when I'm home this evening.

Meanwhile, could I reiterate that the first port of call for a query about the website should be e-mail to info@charlbury.info, not a forum posting? Otherwise the forum just gets clogged up with inward facing discussions like this one. Thanks.

-- Richard (site admin)

Thu 20 Oct 2005, 15:56

Yes I would, I agree with introduction of ID cards

Thu 20 Oct 2005, 14:27

Because I put it there. Would you like me to remove it?

Thu 20 Oct 2005, 13:00

Can someone explain why this anti government stance is on the main Charlbury news banner?